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Ali vs Wlad/Lewis/Vitali... how does he win?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by PugilisticPower, Jun 24, 2009.

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zarman Guest

PugilisticPower said: ↑

Despite all of the debate around people claiming Wlad would beat Ali H2H based on the evidence of their careers, how they fight and who they beat, no one has ever given me a definitive fight strategy that Ali can employ to beat Wlad.

What do you think Ali does to beat Wlad? or Vitali? or Lewis? They would be the biggest ever fighters he's ever faced, rank up there with the biggest punchers as well as have fight games made to defeat smaller men, as Ali is to them.

He's going to use his 6'3 to out jab 6'7, 6'8 and 6'5 fighters respectively from a distance? Remember, Ali was always most effective from the outside, in his era, 6'3 was a "big" fighter, he didn't have much, if any experience fighting guys who were taller than him - let alone by 4-6 inches.

He's going to use his power to knock them out? Ali was never a knock out artist. He had respectable power but it was more so that he was able to break opponents down from the outside and rob them of their heart, more so than one punch power.

He's going to rope a dope them? Look at Foreman. In his prime, he was a slow moving heavyweight who although had ATG power, never really delivered it in anything other than telegraphed shots - problem was, blocking those telegraphed shots generally meant pain regardless.

He's going to outspeed them, get on the inside and work them? Ali was never an inside boxer. In the case of Lewis, you've got an enigma, a tall fighter who was as good on the inside as he was the outside when he committed to it.

In Vitali and Wlad, you've got 250ish pounds of muscle leaning down on you in a clinch the moment you get inside.

So.... how does Ali beat any of these three giant fighters? They're not the lumbering giants of Ali's era, all three of them have decent footwork and decent handspeed.

Lewis and Wlad have a jab that through reach alone, rivals the snap of Ali's jab.

Someone, anyone, give me a pathway to success that Ali would have against any of these fighters.
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get his muslims brothers to scare them shitless

zarman, Jun 25, 2009

#91

tysonlewisbook Well-Known Member Full Member

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Put Chagaev in vs. Joe Louis and you will see a totally different Chagaev.

Disagree, the division is not in a depression. The American hwts have been surpassed and are inferior now. Today's best hwts like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson, Peter, Chambers, Arreola are comparable if not superior to Galento, LeRoy Jones, Berbick, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Patterson, Wepner, Bugner, Cobb, Botha.

tysonlewisbook, Jun 25, 2009

#92

tysonlewisbook Well-Known Member Full Member

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So in actuality, the HWT division now might possibly be stronger than ever before. THough this will be impossible to digest for some who have been misinformed and told over and over it's a weak era today.

But it is a fact that today's hwts are much less known, much less popular and familiar to the public because boxing is much less covered in the mainstream media today than it was in the 70s and 80s.

tysonlewisbook, Jun 25, 2009

#93
BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

Put Chagaev in vs. Joe Louis and you will see a totally different Chagaev.

Disagree, the division is not in a depression. The American hwts have been surpassed and are inferior now. Today's best hwts like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson, Peter, Chambers, Arreola are comparable if not superior to Galento, LeRoy Jones, Berbick, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Patterson, Wepner, Bugner, Cobb, Botha.
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Louis is much faster than Wlad...

So okay...

Considering Chagaev can't land combinations on Valuev or Skeleton, I guess all of a sudden he'll become Mike Tyson against Louis.

Makes sense.

Basically it breaks down to this......you don't really understand the ART of BOXING.

Klitschko is not unbeatable, but he COULD be a force in any era. The same CAN DEFINITELY not be said for the majority of his opponents though.

ESPECIALLY Chagaev, who Ibriganov was much better than, but had to run away from an ancient Holyfield to win.

BITCH ASS, Jun 25, 2009

#94

BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

So in actuality, the HWT division now might possibly be stronger than ever before. THough this will be impossible to digest for some who have been misinformed and told over and over it's a weak era today.

But it is a fact that today's hwts are much less known, much less popular and familiar to the public because boxing is much less covered in the mainstream media today than it was in the 70s and 80s.
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You're just diggin your own grave.

Guys like Tony Tucker would beat the **** outta Chagaev and Ibriganov.

Be serious...

Damn...

BITCH ASS, Jun 25, 2009

#95
TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

Put Chagaev in vs. Joe Louis and you will see a totally different Chagaev.

Disagree, the division is not in a depression. The American hwts have been surpassed and are inferior now. Today's best hwts like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson, Peter, Chambers, Arreola are comparable if not superior to Galento, LeRoy Jones, Berbick, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Patterson, Wepner, Bugner, Cobb, Botha.
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atsch Louis would've beat the **** out of Chageav, it wouldn't take him 10 rds to KO him. Anyone who thinks Chagaev would've given Louis a tough fight should no longer comment about boxing.

Chagaev barely beat a past prime Ruiz, Ibrigamov drew with Ray Austin, Peter and Arreola are both fat slobs & jokes.

TheGreat, Jun 25, 2009

#96
TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

So in actuality, the HWT division now might possibly be stronger than ever before. THough this will be impossible to digest for some who have been misinformed and told over and over it's a weak era today.

But it is a fact that today's hwts are much less known, much less popular and familiar to the public because boxing is much less covered in the mainstream media today than it was in the 70s and 80s.
Click to expand...

Tyson's era gets a lot of **** but guys like McCall, Bruno, Tucker, Witherspoon, old Holmes and Spinks would beat the living **** out of Valuev, Peter, Gomez, old Rahman, old Maskeav, Ibrigamov.

TheGreat, Jun 25, 2009

#97

NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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All Ali has to do is box better than Byrd, Rahman Sanders, Brewster, and Purrity, and he beats those guys. I just didn't feel like going in depth saying that Ali's footwork, (and we are talking about Ali in his prime of course) keeps him out of harms way, and Ali's speed puts harm on those 3.

NALLEGE, Jun 25, 2009

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NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

Put Chagaev in vs. Joe Louis and you will see a totally different Chagaev.

Disagree, the division is not in a depression. The American hwts have been surpassed and are inferior now. Today's best hwts like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson, Peter, Chambers, Arreola are comparable if not superior to Galento, LeRoy Jones, Berbick, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Patterson, Wepner, Bugner, Cobb, Botha.
Click to expand...

Your posts are about as bad as any posters that I've ever read on any boxing forum.

NALLEGE, Jun 25, 2009

#99
NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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TheGreat said: ↑

Tyson's era gets a lot of **** but guys like McCall, Bruno, Tucker, Witherspoon, old Holmes and Spinks would beat the living **** out of Valuev, Peter, Gomez, old Rahman, old Maskeav, Ibrigamov.
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:good

NALLEGE, Jun 25, 2009

#100
zicas Boxing Addict Full Member

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Ali has superior hand and foot movement, reflexes, stamina, conditioning, and workrate. **** the height difference when you have such a speed advantage. A focused Ali would embarass the Klitschkos. I think Lewis would pose more of a challenge because of his ring smarts though.

Don't forget.. this is Ali we are talking about, hasn't he shown time and time again he can overcome a challenge and pull something new out of his sleeve everytime? I pick Ali the ring general to beat all three.

Would you really bet against Ali?

zicas, Jun 25, 2009

#101

keyser Active Member Full Member

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All of them would beat Ali.... Lewis might loose on points because of his lazy work-rate sometimes, but the great Ali wouldn't stand a change against the Klitscho's IMO. Wladimir by points, Vitali by KO.

keyser, Jun 25, 2009

#102
Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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PugilisticPower said: ↑

Despite all of the debate around people claiming Wlad would beat Ali H2H based on the evidence of their careers, how they fight and who they beat, no one has ever given me a definitive fight strategy that Ali can employ to beat Wlad.

What do you think Ali does to beat Wlad? or Vitali? or Lewis? They would be the biggest ever fighters he's ever faced, rank up there with the biggest punchers as well as have fight games made to defeat smaller men, as Ali is to them.

He's going to use his 6'3 to out jab 6'7, 6'8 and 6'5 fighters respectively from a distance? Remember, Ali was always most effective from the outside, in his era, 6'3 was a "big" fighter, he didn't have much, if any experience fighting guys who were taller than him - let alone by 4-6 inches.

He's going to use his power to knock them out? Ali was never a knock out artist. He had respectable power but it was more so that he was able to break opponents down from the outside and rob them of their heart, more so than one punch power.

He's going to rope a dope them? Look at Foreman. In his prime, he was a slow moving heavyweight who although had ATG power, never really delivered it in anything other than telegraphed shots - problem was, blocking those telegraphed shots generally meant pain regardless.

He's going to outspeed them, get on the inside and work them? Ali was never an inside boxer. In the case of Lewis, you've got an enigma, a tall fighter who was as good on the inside as he was the outside when he committed to it.

In Vitali and Wlad, you've got 250ish pounds of muscle leaning down on you in a clinch the moment you get inside.

So.... how does Ali beat any of these three giant fighters? They're not the lumbering giants of Ali's era, all three of them have decent footwork and decent handspeed.

Lewis and Wlad have a jab that through reach alone, rivals the snap of Ali's jab.

Someone, anyone, give me a pathway to success that Ali would have against any of these fighters.
Click to expand...

UD for Ali vs all 3, too much speed & ability... his lateral movement & ability to beat all of these guys to the punch continually would be the main factors, they will all have trouble landing their hardest shots & prime Ali will keep this up for the entirety.

Bill Butcher, Jun 25, 2009

#103
barrington Active Member Full Member

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Ali the most OVERATED heavyweight in the history of the sport.He would find it a VERY difficult nights work against all three.

barrington, Jun 25, 2009

#104
Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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tysonlewisbook said: ↑

There is no hwt from history, ALi '67 included that could beat Wladimir Klitschko the way he is right now. This is the ultimate dominant HWT wrecking machine. Ali would be physically forced to fight Klitschko's fight which is a constant forward pressure based upon masterful footwork which gains positioning for a ruthless accurate jab and the nuclear right hand. There is nothing ALi has to ward off Klitschko, nothing to discourage or bother him from his simple and obvious plan. It would be Klitschko systematically pounding on ALi who would try single punches but would not be able to reach the target. A few slaps might reach but would have no effect. ANy attempts to throw combinations at Klitschko would result in Klitschko jab knocking him backwards and off balance. Then the right hand would land and Ali would be like, What the ****. By about round three Ali would go into survival mode. Ali just does not have the size, strength to deal with fighting a gigantic perfectly coordinated machine like Klitschko. Klitschko would win decisively, in what would look like an unfair fight. There is no question about this. However Ali at 6-7 250 pounds would change everything and make it a much more interesting and fair fight.
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atsch

The worst thing is... you sound serious :-(

Bill Butcher, Jun 25, 2009

#105

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