Is Aaron Pryor really an ATG?

He got caught in the first against Ganigan, and then proceded to lay a beating down.

Man your criteria for shopworn is pretty thin. One freaking bad round against a pretty good fighter and your washed up.

Pryor before drugs beat every fighter he faced, was the face of a division and beat an ATG near the top of his game twice. Oh yeah he wooped up on a pretty good fighter in Cervantes too. But yeah, I'm sure he had one foot in the grave......

Keith

 

If you honestly seriously believe that Arguello hadnt clearly lost a step from his earlier days then there is no convincing you is there.

When I say shopworn I mean fading...I mean not at their peak anymore.
Dont take what I say the wrong way...Arguello was definitely not prime in those two fights and not "near the top of his game"..But Im not saying he was shot or ineffective.

I really have nothing more to say on this...Their records are not comparable, I think Ive illustrated that pretty clearly.

 

No. He may have had the potential to be an ATG, but right when he should've been reaching his peak (after the 2nd Arguello fight), he instead declined and faded into obscurity. He had talent, but outside of the Arguello fights, his resume is sorely lacking. On top of that, the first win over Arguello is badly tainted IMO.

 

Yes

 

First off who's to say Arguello wasnt prime? 'Above his best weight', well who's to say 140 wouldn't be his best weight if Pryor didnt end all that? Arguello was a 5'10 beast of a man and 140 would suit his body really really well, he'd add extra strength. Arguello seemed to be fighting 1 of his best fights in there.

Your conviently forgeting Pryor was a LW himself who moved to 140 to find opportunities because he couldnt get the big fights there. Looking at both men Pryor certainly didnt have a size advantage in there.

Interestingly it could be argued. You have to dig deep into ATG status to find fighters who may beat Arguello but some of those lose, a 17yo Benitez, Chavez and Ortiz imo may well lose, no one couldn't be upset by that Arguello. And whats more Pryor fought Arguello's fight and beat him at his own game

As for his competition, Arguello and Cervantes aside it wasnt great but his dominance is key. Also he wanted Leonard who just wasnt interested. You can only beat the men who'll get in front of you.

HEad to head Pryor is rated very highly at 140, some even pick him over Duran, Mayweather, Whitaker, I'm not sure about that but he'd beat Chavez. Which says allot about the man

When your 1 of the few fighters Floyd Mayweather Jr looks up to you know your something special :deal

 

Come on bro. Who for goodness sakes hits their peak 3 divisions above their first world title, 80+ fights into their career and around 30 years of age. That is absurd.

 

Pacquaio? Looks to be at his peak at 29/30 in his 10th weight class

Duran, lightweight was his 3rd/4th weight class, he was at his peak at around 30

Are we saying Arguello was a small 140lber? Above optimal weight or calling 140 a sub optimal weight for him is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. He would have been moving up in weight anyway, less drained at 140, big and stronger at the weight, skills at their peak.

 

Another hidden poll... wonderful :-(

 

He did? If thats the case then no, he's not an atg he's a cheat. We're far to forgiving to drugs cheats imo. In other sports they're treated like pariahs but in boxing its like they're slightly naughty little boys.

 

Alexis had a shitload more fights by this stage.

So you are saying Pac is definitely in his peak weight class?

Fair go mate, i said above where he won his first world title. Arguello = Featherweight, Duran = lightweight with no if's or but's. By this token we would be looking at Duran as a junior Middle. Of course we full well realise 135 was Duran's peak weight. The weight where he won his first title.

Arguello's peak weight is seen as 130 by the overwhelming majority.

Actually, trying to argue Arguello was peak at 140 is the biggest load of BS i have ever seen written about him, ever. As for size, Hearns had the height and reach of a light heavyweight but nobody is silly enough to claim that as his peak weight, are they? Silly arguement.

Absolute rubbish. Arguello's rise in weight had nothing to do with neccessity or growing out of 135. His growing was done. He moved up by choice, and that choice was driven by a history making 4th division world title.

You will be disagreed with by a massive majority here because your debate holds no water whatsoever. With due respect it is ridiculous.

 

1. Pacquaio has probably had harder fighters with 2 punnishing 1s against Marquez. Actually yes 140 suits Pac down to the ground, he was drained at 130, a little drained at 135, he's fresher and stronger at 140 while carrying his power up. I believe Arguello must have been pretty drained at 130-135 too with the massive frame he carried

2. Duran did beat Marcel at FW though, the man who beat Arguello so he performed at 126-130 himself, obviously didnt have as many wars.

3. He would have more advantages height/size at 130 but in terms of how much he brought into the ring, 140 would certainly benefit him, less drained, stronger at the weight etc, while still having size advantages.

If it wasnt for Pryor, Arguello maybe would have been a great 140lber too

4. You think its easy to make 130/135lbs for a man of 5'10? Its suprising he had strength at those weights and thats what makes him a freak but at 140 he looked to have lost nothing against say Rooney and Pryor himself

If Arguello stayed at 135 he may have suffered losses due to weight making

Bottom line it is natural for a 5'10 man who starts at FW to go up 3-4 weight classes and still be prime. Its like saying Delahoya wasnt prime at 147 in a way.

 

Any fighter who is in his 83rd pro fight and faced the opponents Arguello faced is bound to be past his best. Especially a guy who is fighting 2 divisions above his best weight. People often argue against Arguello being "ring worn and faded" because he was still so damn good. However, being good does not mean being at your best.

Sometime when you have an afternoon to kill watch Aguello/Olivares, Arguello/Escalera 1 and 2, Agruello/Watt, Arguello/Mancinni, and Arguello/Pryor one after the other. The rise and fall of Alexis Arguello, along with the attending decline are quite evident. During Arguello/Pryor II one of the commentators said, "Arguello in his prime slipped punches and countered. This version gets hit and counters." THAT is the difference. El Flaco turned pro at age 16. At age 30 Alexis Arguello was not the same fighter he was at age 26.

 

The difference is 1 name, Aaron Pryor, Arguello fought better against the other fighters because they weren't Aaron Pryor, simple as that. Arguello got schooled, outmanouvered, outworked, outsped, outboxed in both fights because Pryor was the better man, plain and simple. He never had the footwork, speed, workrate to beat a Pryor. That fight outside of the occasionaly hellish neck snapping shot was a complete domination.

Pryor should get the rightful praise he deserves for BEATING Arguello, age/weight/primeness didn't beat Arguello, Pryor did. But instead Arguello have all the 'black bottle' and 'past prime' bull**** excuses

 

for me yes. h2h plays a factor for me and im not confident in anyone being able to beat him at 140. his competition is lacking but you cant really blame the guy for other people avoiding him can you?

 

This post is really an example of all that is wrong with ESB. I offered Pryor's supporters a means of reviewing the historical data in an objective fashion, but no way in hell are you going to do that. Instead you'll allow your emotion based opinion to prevail.

On October 30th 1974 Ali stopped Foreman to reclaim the heavyweight championship of the world. Does anyone in their right mind believe that the 1974 version of Ali was as good as the 66-67 version? Same deal with Aguello.