Has Wlad done enough to establish lineage?

As a wlad and vitali fan I have to say No. Vitali would have to retire or vacate his belt and wlad would have to beat the number 1 contender by the wbc to be considered linear champ imo

 

Quite correct.

I mis-spoke (was thinking of Lennox and Rocky at the same time).


What I meant was, Lennox retired as the linear champion.

And therefore, defeating Lennox cannot be a requirement for becoming 'linear' champion.

Otherwise, Lennox could never have been considered linear champion, as Rocky retired undefeated.

 

Not while Vitali is the best heavyweight in the world.

 

Define lineage.

 

:goodWay to stand up on this.

 

I think we actually agreed (well, again, depending on my sobriety and it is a Friday...) as my #3 hasn't been met!

In any event, even if they did fight it wouldn't be very satisfying. Everyone would love to see the fight, but I'm convinced at least one of them would be pulling their punches even if it is on a subconscious level.

 

What ever lineage VK HAD after the Lewis retirement ended when he retire for 4 years imo.

In that retirement frame, WK did enough, and added marks on his last victory for lineage imo.

 

Unfortunately Wladmir & Vitali either need to fight or one of them retires for lineage to be established.

Without beating the former lineal champion (Lewis) the only other way for it to be established is for number 1 and number 2 to fight.

 

Ok... so not back in 2004. We are talking about 2009.:good

 

Clearly the return of Vitali was seen as the return of the true champion, the best of the division when he retired, WBC, RING [some say lineal also] and Emiritus champion.

His comeback was the return of the King and he was hailed by his predeccessors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYWHdX06sq0

 

The problem is with people like you, that want to redefine the meaning of things.

Lineage is the man who beat the man etc. If not, become undisputed to restart the lineage (regardless of brothers, politics and other bull****).

YOu want to say Wlad is the best, fine. The Ring want to give him their belt, fine as well, he's probably done enough to earn it.

Claim he's the best in the division by miles, and the man to beat. Also fine, and probably hard to argue against.


But to say that equates to being the linear champ is wrong.

****, even saying "**** lineage' makes more sense, because at the end of the day, it's just a meaningless phrase anyway, something that is more a thing of interest than a real, meaningful title.

Hell, it was shown in the light heavies with the endless circle jerk of Jones/Tarver/Johnson/Hopkins that lineage doesn't equate to being the best in the division, so why worry so much about it?

Wlads fans should just say "no, he's not the linear champ. But so what, he's the best in the division by miles"

 

I think between unifying multiple titles and claiming The Ring belt, he's done enough to establish himself as THE Heavyweight Champion. With that status, a new lineage has begun since the next person to defeat Wladimir would be considered Heavyweight Champ under that assumption.

I suppose a case can be made for Vitali being better, but you can be the champ without necessarily being the best. There was a huge uproar in 2006 when it was realized that if Gatti were to beat Baldomir, he would have become Welterweight Champion of the world, despite receiving a beatdown from Mayweather, who was now campainging as a welterweight, at 140 the year before. It was seen as absurd since there was no way in hell Gatti would have defended against Mayweather, yet he would have been The Champ, even if his reign would have been tainted.

I know these are very different circumstances. I just want to illustrate that establishing yourself as The Champ doesn't necessarily equate to being undeniably better than everyone in your weight class (although I personally consider Wladimir better at this point than Vitali).

 

Just as being the best in your division doesn't equate to being linear champ.

Undisputed, regardless of brothers, politics or anything else.

Wlad may be the best. But until he's undisputed, there is no linear champ. I really don't know what everyone is arguing about.