How much weight did Armstrong & his contemporaries giv up when they went up in weight

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by 3ightY, Jun 30, 2009.


  1. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    I read on the internet that Armstrong routinely fought with disadvantages of 10-20 lbs during the time when he conquered the higher weight divisions. How much weight was he really disadvantaged considering that he fought during the era of same-day weigh-ins (correct me if I am wrong)?
     
  2. swilson120

    swilson120 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 6, 2009
    makes freddies 145 demand look like an excuse.......they have won a title at 135 and 140 go and fight shane or cotto at 147 if he is the top 20 atg like they say !!
     
  3. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    No not really. That is not the question. I just would like to get a proper perspective on modern greats vs classic greats. This question comes to mind, if Armstrong fought in the era of same-day weigh-ins, how did his opponents outweigh him by 10-20 lbs?
     
  4. Jeff Young

    Jeff Young Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jun 5, 2009
    i've always said size gets overplayed.....it matters a lot more when you get up in the bigger weight classes....
     
  5. Mike_S

    Mike_S Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jimmy Wilde often gave up a lot of weight too.
     
  6. swilson120

    swilson120 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    henry fought the middleweight champ to a draw while he was the current feather, light and welter champ (no in between weights back then or alphabet titles in those divisions) and fighting sometimes every two weeks...thats why there was such a weight disparity....yeah old times maybe but he is the true pound 4 pound king period !!
     
  7. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    How about on fight night, how much weight disparity could they have had? Am I correct that these fights happened during the era of same-day weigh-ins?
     
  8. icemax

    icemax Indian Red Full Member

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    Wilde as a matter of course gave 8,10, 12 lbs to his opponent. In one fight early in his acreer he gave away 22lbs and knocked the man out in the 3rd round.
     
  9. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    I am looking at Wilde's record, and what I see is that he did fight with 10-15-lb handicap on fight night but most of those fights are against up and comers. Also, even when he is already an experienced boxer, he was still fighting boxers with 0's or 1 win or with losing records. And looking at other legend's resume, this also holds true against them. I am not trying to diminish their achievements, but this does show that the modern greats' resume can stand side by side against the classical greats. Even if they are fighting every 2 weeks, they were not exactly fighting big fights. This explains why they had longevity despite having 80+ career fights.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mar 21, 2007
    Yes, quite right.

    Armstrong fought at the weight that based suited him as a fighter. Instead of bulking himself up artificially, he would conceed weight on the scales to allow him to hold on to his incredble workrate and speed. So he would defend his welterweight title weighing anything from 133-144, whilst his opponents were free to weigh in at the limit of 147.

    Armstrong was not a welterweight.

    Anyway, because he wasn't re-hydrating post weigh-in, it's unlikely he was gaining much upon stepping of the scales.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    An estimated 5-15% of fights are actually on boxrec.

    A lot of these guys will have a had a lot more fights. He probably never matched someone with 1 or 2 fights.
     
  12. swilson120

    swilson120 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 6, 2009
    which modern greats records are we comparing the armstrongs,louis,robinsons,clays etc with ??
     
  13. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    Try checking Wilde's boxrec. Armstrong's resume is impressive and worthy of his ATG status. However, if for example, Pacquiao on fight night weighs in 148 and Cotto weighs in 158, that is not too far from Armstrong (142) vs Garcia (153.5).
     
  14. 3ightY

    3ightY New Member Full Member

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    May 27, 2009
    In general, although classic greats have a lot more fights, they did fight more cans even when they are already experienced. While most modern greats have a lot less fights they fight in bigger fights more or less every 3 months. Although, I still think that classic greats are tougher, but not a lot tougher.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's what i'm saying, many of Wilde's opponents have incomplete records on Boxrec, or appear to.

    Definitely not to much difference there, if it happens.

    I do think that Armstrong's defence of his welterweight title whilst never coming in at the limit is impressive though. That he consistantly gave away so much weight whilst defending his title is an achievment all on it's own.