Cotto vs Pacquiao will be like Cotto vs Torres !!!

I would give Manny virtually no chance at beating Margarito, even in the wake of his destruction at the hands of Mosley.

Manny can beat Cotto if his power holds up, and he can take Miguel's punches well. The thing is, Cotto is so supremely gifted himself, there is no way that Manny can avoid getting tagged unless he stops him early like he did Hatton. Cotto will find the angles, he has the handspeed and the timing to land his left, and Manny will do well to take it.

You can make the argument that for as well as Manny as performed above 130lb, he still hasn't taken a serious shot by anyone above that weight. Oscar landed virtually nothing with conviction, Diaz landed virtually nothing, and Hatton was knocked spark out in 2 rounds.

 

Doubt it, they're 2 completly different types of fighters

I'd say Cotto-Judah would be a better pick, only give Zab a better cornerman and twice as much heart and stamina

 

I thik if this fight actually goes the distance, it will be a Pac win by ud. He will out punch and pace Cotto all night. his punch volume will be at the least, 3-1. And Cotto has a bad habit of running backwards. this wont play well with the Judges, and he ain't fighting in MSG with 1/2 the Bronx filling the chairs.

 

Well said bro :deal

 

Cotto wont be going back in this fight, he has only gone back in 2 fights bro Clottey and Margo, I cant recall any other fights with him being on the back foot.

 

I will re-phrase that, after he gets hit with good shots, IE Margo and Clottey, he has the habit of running backward. IMO, Manny will hit him with these shots. Now Cotto is a hard man to KO, but I think Manny can def ring his bell. And I think that will cause him to back pedal. And that never looks good to the judges.

 

Let's discuss the offense of Miguel Cotto.

I keep hearing what is going to happen to Cotto when he is being hit by Manny, but we should assume that Cotto will go into this fight with two hands and will be throwing shots back?

 

Cotto was on the back foot against Clottey because he had a gaping cut over his eye.

Cotto was on the back foot against Margo because he chose to not stand toe to toe with him.

Manny couldn't even knock out Marquez for ****s sake so how the hell is he knocking out Cotto.

Cotto wont be back peddling anywhere, Manny will be fighting in the same way he fought Oscar, taking his time and Cotto will be playing the waiting game not back peddling...

and if he does back peddle its because he wants to lure Pacquiao in to counter him

Anyone that says Pac will knock Cotto out is still basing their assessment over the hatton fight.

If hatton never got caught with that punch who knows what would of happened, Hatton fought like a stupid ediot that night.

Cotto is light years ahead of anything that Hatton brings to the table so stop with the Pac is going to knock him out talk its sounds stupid and it wont happen.

 

I think manny will win. by decision or by KO.. and i dont think cotto is the man that we are all waiting for to defeat paquiao.. I think cotto is strong and a puncher and a lot of heart but his a hittable fighter some of his last fights were he was badly hurt.. he was out boxed by his opponents. Unlike paquiao who dominated his opponents and all of paquiaos opponents are not pussies they are champions of diffenrent weight classes and future hall of famers.. I know im being a one sided guy but hey im just saying what i feel. But I believe this fight with cotto would be great greater than Paquiao vs Hatton. I think its gonna be like a Marquez vs Paquiao fight which is very exciting full of exhanging of punches their will be knockdowns but no one is going to quit and like the JMM vs MP fight, paquiao will become the winner.. Go 7 for 7 manny...

 

These people seem to forget that Cotto's last 3 big fights were against 3 of the toughest guys in all of boxing, they're durability shouldn't be confused with Manny's

And I know this has been said b4 but, Cotto is a full fledged WW who also happens to b heavyhanded, I have no reason to believe Manny will eat Cotto's best shots like it's nothing

And yes I know the same could of been said for Dlh, Hatton, etc....but not only is Cotto a big puncher, but he's a clever puncher with great timing and not only does he know how to set up up his punches with a strong jab, but he can mix them up fluidly as well

So I understand most of this has been said about Manny's victims b4, but that doesn't justify overlooking Cotto's power or offensive arsenal

 

Well, the thing is all of us here have are opinions on who the better man is and why. I do happen to be on the side MP. But I won't take anything away from Cotto. I do believe he is a very good fighter. I believe he can be a much better fighter with the right corner and with out the distractions that his personal life has brought. The man seems lost to me. almost like an identity crisis if you will. The tattoos for one, whats with that? I don't think he has the head game to win. I also think he got this fight not because he is the best man out there to beat, but that no card that can be made right now, will sell more tickets or PPV the Cotto vs Pac.

 

The argument about Pac not knocking out Marquez therefore he won't knock out Cotto is null and void. Pac's the only guy to have Marquez on the canvas. He's the only guy to put Hatton on ***** street in the 1st two rounds. You do the math and think it's not possible for it to happen to Cotto.:blood

 

Selfkill, you must surely know that despite all of the disagreements we have ever had, I have enormous respect for your conduct and your input on this forum, I genuinely do.

But to be honest, knowing the knowledge and understanding of boxing that you possess, I am just completely dumbfounded by the statement/belief which you have expressed on this thread.

I could be wrong, but I am guessing you have seen all of both mens' fights for at least the past 5-6 years.

How you can say Miguel Cotto is a better boxer than the current version of Manny Pacquiao... as I said, I don't even know where to start such is my disbelief that you actually think that.

I am a bit of a Miguel Cotto fan, what I would call a casual fan. I don't feel about him the way I do about Duran, Pacquiao, Marquez, Hopkins, Toney, Whitaker etc - my personal elite favourites (the way you feel about Barrera). But I do consider myself a bit of a fan of his, in much the same way as I quite like and often defend guys like Oscar, Barrera, Lennox etc. When Miguel fights, I always root for him to win.


However, I am a realist when it comes to Miguel. My support of him is on account of my love of a good bodypuncher, I think he is exciting to watch, and I really value and respect the way he always wants to fight the best guys available.

But even with all of that affection and respect for Miguel, for me there is just no way no how is he anywhere near the same level as Manny Pacquiao when it comes to boxing ability. I mean not even close!

I have such strong opinions on this subject that I could write for hours and hours, and frankly bore everyone who started reading to death, so I will write this post in list form in order to get my main points across and be as concise as possible:


A - I think you are to some extent guilty of the unbelievably common perception on this site that Manny Pacquiao is still the same raw, one-dimensional, one-two one-two left hand happy firebrand that he was in his first round of fights with Barrera, Marquez and Morales in 2003-5.

He is not. People really need to start watching, paying attention, and appreciating his stunning development in all areas over the past couple of years.

His vastly improved footwork and movement mean that he is now far, far, FAR more elusive and hard to hit than he once was. You don't need to possess silky skills and the shoulder-roll technique to have a very effective defence. Just look at peak Roy Jones.


B - This one is not levelled at you as much as at the majority of General Forum frequenters:

Because of how brief and emphatic Pacquiao's win over Hatton was, it has fallen victim to the standard ESB operating procedure of being written off as 'Hatton must've been shot to lose so early and so brutally'.

WHO WAS SAYING THAT AFTER THE MALIGNAGGI FIGHT????

Hatton won every round against the consensus number 2 in the division and stopped him. Hatton was the UNDISPUTED number 1 light-welterweight in the world and The Ring champion. Many were saying the way he beat Malignaggi meant it was the best win of his career after Tszyu. He beat Malignaggi far more comprehensively than Cotto did.


Pacquiao proved he had the power, speed, strength and movement to utterly devastate a man who was universally viewed as a very strong light-welterweight - a man who had went 10 rounds with Floyd Mayweather at a weight he was not comfortable at as proved by the Collazo fight. Pacquiao fought him at his perfect weight and the new version of Manny made it a complete mismatch, despite it being his first fight at that weight and being outweighed on the night.

Make no mistake - Pac and Roach learned a lot from the second Marquez fight. Pac will never be that easy to hit again. Even then, Pac made that fight as close as hell. And his power seems to have increased with the jump up in weight.

The man is a born-again and ever-improving monster.



C - Despite all his good work in the first half of the fight, Miguel Cotto's flaws and limitations were painfully brought to the fore in the Margarito fight. I think Cotto fought with offensive skill and great bravery, and I definitely think he could win a rematch with some tactical switches, but surely to Christ any boxing fan with an ounce of nous could see Miguel's limitations in that fight.

When put under pressure, Miguel's defensive system completely fell apart. He did not have the footwork or movement to elude Margo, he merely jogged round the outside of the ring. He either did not know how to or stupidly choose not to clinch when Margo was standing on his toes. He continually ate uppercut after uppercut after uppercut after uppercut all ****ing night long.

Antonio Margarito is not a clever boxer, and he is not a skilled boxer. An inability to defend yourself against him or maneouvre him simply cannot be attributed to anything other than some severe weaknesses in Miguel's skillset.


We had all seen possible indications of this in fights such as Ricardo Torres and Zab Judah, but Miguel had always had the firepower to pull him through (hence why I and many others like him as a fighter).

When he did not have the firepower to drive an opponent back, he had no answers and was battered to a standstill, unable to make the final bell.


Against Joshua Clottey, Miguel was up against a physically strong opponent, but a horrendously overrated fighter. Clottey is slow, basic, one-dimensional, predictable, robotic. The guy would struggle to win a round against a Mayweather or a Pacquiao.

I have heard murmurings on this forum since Cotto-Clottey about Clottey being some sort of immovable object, a fighter with a great defence and a formidable offensive arsenal.

Sorry, but anyone who believes that really does need to be taken to the vet and put down.

Now my verdict on that fight is nowhere near as damning as it was on the Margarito fight. I do believe Miguel won the fight and I do accept that he was troubled throughout by the cut.

But yet again, the signs were there that when Miguel is faced with someone as strong as him or stronger (as both Margarito and Clottey were), the only thing he is capable of is retreat in straight lines whilst peppering his opponent with quick shots designed more to keep them at bay and wrack up points until the final bell goes rather than actually work towards breaking down and either stopping his opponent or emphatically outboxing them and beating them convincingly.


OK, I have prattled on for long enough. Could go on as I said, but I'll try to end with a comparison that should sum all of this up:


Now, Cotto moved up to 147 because he could no longer make the weight at 140, and he regularly weighs in at 155-160 on fightnight. Despite his height, he is without doubt a fully-fledged and full-sized welterweight. That is also the optimum weight for Antonio Margarito and Joshua Clottey.

Watch those fights. Cotto's limitations as boxer, the weaknesses in his skillset, are undeniably brought to the fore by Margarito.

And Margarito it is fair to say is not a clever, skilled or great boxer. A 37-year-old Mosley who had all kinds of problems with Mayorga went in and ****ing blew Margo away with ease. Margo has several legitimate losses. While effective at welterweight, he is not a p4p top 10 calibre fighter despite his brief ranking there after the Cotto fight.

Against Clottey, although Cotto won, he had extreme difficulty in outfighting a one-dimensional, predictable plodder. Extreme difficulty.

And those were two guys in the same weight class as Miguel.



Who has ever, ever run Pacquiao this close? And I don't just mean in the last year (within the same time period as Cotto fought Margarito and Clottey), I mean in all the time since he came to prominence in the West by beating Barrera.

In six years, Pacquiao has had three such fights - two with Juan Manuel Marquez and one with Erik Morales.

Now forgetting for a minute that Pac started his world title career as a flyweight, let's say at the time he fought them he was the same size as Marquez and Morales. I think that's a fair comment, don't think anyone could legitimately disagree.

In these three fights, Pacquiao fought two of the very, very best fighters of this era. In his first fight with Morales, Pac fought like a lion for 12 rounds, took some punishment and gave some out too. Pac was relatively raw and one-dimensional, and was fairly outboxed by a more seasoned pro. He never wilted, never got dropped, never took a bad beating at any point.

In his fights with Marquez, Pac took big shots from a world-class elite boxer with proven KO power, never went down, never wilted, dropped his opponent four times, and emerged with a draw and a win.


Cotto - same weight class as Margo & Clottey - brutalized and KO'd v Margo, sneaked an SD v Clottey (Miguel took worse punishment than Clottey in the fight IMO)

Pacquiao - same weight class as Marquez and Morales - never dropped, never hurt, went 3-1-1 against them


Now you tell me just how ****ing ENORMOUS the gulf is between Marquez and Morales, and Margarito and Clottey.

It's GARGANTUAN.


And Pacquiao has improved every aspect of his game dramatically since the fights with Morales and Marquez.


Now, I have ended up rambling on when I really didn't intend to, and I know this post has been a bit all over the place, but I hope my meaning has come through a bit.


Saying that right now Miguel Cotto is a better boxer than Manny Pacquiao is absolute lunacy.

 

Pac has enough power to hurt cotto. Cotto might be able to take pacman's power punch but as we all know pac's speed is the killer. Pac will throw combination at cotto's face and i dont think cotto will be able to handle it for 12 rounds.

 

Thats the only big question for me. At this point i am picking Pacquiao by stoppage, i think his sniper offense and work rate (Cotto's cryptonite) is a bit too much for Cotto who has major defensive liabilities. Pacquiao and Roach know how to train for specifics and i think Manny can exploit it.

For me Pacquiao matches up perfectly with Cotto, but the only remaining question is how well each guy can take each others shots. Pacquiao has barely been hit by DLH and Hatton, so it is hard to presume how well he will take Cotto's shots.