Marciano vs Frazier

No. Ellis is equally as impressive as the LaStarza win as far as I'm concerned. Ellis lost (He really did) to an old Floyd Patterson who was a product of the 50's. And Ellis is not a good opponent for a Marciano or Frazier fighter. He's not durable enough nor does he swat hard. He can counter-punch, and box but that's about it. A prime Bonavena is not better than a win against a 38 old year old Walcott. Walcott was a late bloomer and mismanaged fighter. He also fought the best fight of his life for 13 rounds. I would say a prime Walcott was more the 48-51 breed but he still had a lot to offer. And a HW champion Walcott is a better win than Ellis, Bonavena, and probably a prime Quarry. A 32 year old Charles is a better win than any of those fighters you listed. Archie Moore was a 40 years old but he was a genetic freak, a Bernard Hopkins like. His prime is hard to figure out but he had a massive win streak before the Marciano fight, a good run after. He was a contendor as a HW till the 60's and LHW champion till 1959. Moore was more near his prime than age will indiciate. I'd say that win against Moore is superior to an Ellis win, and perhaps equaly to a Bonavena win (Although that's probably me being generous).

Yes, unfortunately Joe was even a tad past it at 29 years old. However, the Bugner fight was competetive. It was scored 6-4. The knockdown really made it decisive for Joe.

The punch doesn't impress me. Neither does Ramos who has more losses than wins. Ramos wasn't a huge guy. The guy weighed 180 pounds 3 fights earlier. His weight jumped around. He was lazy, couldn't hit very hard, and only could knock out bums. His 33% KO rating his hardly stellar. His weight jumping around is indicator of his dedication and consistency as a fighter.

Nobody is forgetting that. Do you know the difference between heart and chin?

Except for the next knockdown push/punch. Frazier wobbled around for the next 15-25 seconds getting his bearings.

 

I'm fine with Ali. But essentially you're saying that Ellis, Quarry, Chuvalo... CHUVALO? And Bonavena could have beaten or given WAlcott a better fight than Rocky and Charles. Nice laugh. I have Walcott beating all those fighters but Ali.

Walcott hit much harder than Quarry. Abe Simon said Walcott was the hardest puncher he fought. Walcott dropped Louis 3 times. He must have a glass chin in your eyes if you think that. I bet Quarry and Chuvalo drop him too then? Only Bonavena hit harder on that list.

Obviously this is incredibly relevant in this matchup. :shock:

Do the same with Rocky and he could do better and might've lasted longer against Foreman.

True, but I think some of your assessment is off or slightly bias. Do you really pick those fighters over those fighters Rocky fought at that stage? Do you really think Quarry hit harder than Walcott? That seems like a stretch.

 

:good Bingo, people get too preoccupied with age of Moore and Walcott. Most realistically it was Charles that had declined that most, but I'd argue he was the best of the fighters at this peak and superior technically so he was still a whole lot to offer. Some people age differently, some people peak differently, everybody is different. Got to look at things within the context.

 

This is coming from the guy who thinks Frazier would win easily and that Marciano would lose very badly. :-(

And why? Does Frazier have the better two fisted attack, power, stamina, or chin? :nono

You claim his resume is much better. With Ali? Yes. Excluding Ali :nono

:ko

 

Frazier's best left hook might equal Rocky's Suzie Q. Heck, it might even be better. But I'm talking in terms of all their artillery. Rocky hits better and equally as well with both punches while Frazier was more left handed fighter. It's pretty simple with two-fisted attack means. If you're going to dispute this, I'd like to know how many times Frazier used that right to the head or not to set up that left hook. I'd really like to know if he ever dropped anyone with it. He stunned Quarry in 69 with it and that's about all I remember.

How does Frazier have better combined power with both fists? Not only is Marciano's power more balanced, he has more. You think Frazier would've been KOing tons of people more often and more early if he had such great power. Truthfully he had that killer left hook, and might've been the more precise and quicker handed puncher. But power belongs to Rocky. How does Frazier clearly have the better chin?

Again, if I was under these beliefs I'd think the same thing with the matchup. I don't know how you came to that analysis objectively - maybe you need to watch more Marciano film.

By the way, I'd be curious to see where you rank Frazier and Marciano on your top 10 list. I'd also be curious as to know who your favorite fighter is or favorite heavyweight is.