Mike Tyson vs Joe Frazier

Good stuff.

I agree that Tyson doesn't "hit as hard as Foreman." In terms of punching prowess I rank Tyson over Foreman due to the speed factor that he combined with power like no one I have ever seen.

Frazier's chances increase only after enough time has elapsed where the intangibles kick in.

 

Before answering this, I viewed one complete round, and four quick kayos. The first clip was the opening three minutes of Frazier/Quarry I. The second and third replays were Tyson's rapid demolitions of Mike Spinks, and Frazier's kid Marvis. Finally, Smokin' Joe's one round 1969 blowout of Dave Zyglewicz, where Joe drops Ziggy 13 seconds after the opening bell with his sixth hook of the contest.

Tyson would be in a world of trouble here. Mike wouldn't be facing an intimidated opponent in Smoke, and he couldn't bank on pre FOTC Frazier getting off to a slow start. Jimmy Ellis did well for two and a half rounds by staying the hell away from Joe, hardly Tyson's style.

If Mike did manage to hurt Joe, Smoke wouldn't stop coming, wouldn't stop getting up if Tyson did manage to floor him for an instant. For every right uppercut Mike attempted, Joe would produce three economically devastating hooks to Mike's head and body. Tyson's overhand right would simply go sailing over Joe's bobbing head. No matter how good Mike's head movement was, that wouldn't prevent Joe from nailing him downstairs. Joe would also be a lot more relaxed than Mike. It helped Tyson that Spinks was tense. Joe wouldn't be wrapped so tight.

Quarry started fast against Joe, in their title fight following the Zyglewicz massacre, pouring in nearly a hundred punches in that opening round, and Jerry could hit. Over 50 of Jerry's hooks went downstairs. But Joe returned fire, with over 60 of his own shots in that opening frame. After just two rounds, Jerry was already tiring. With Ziggy, Joe would take a little step back, and let fly with that hook.

Tyson didn't have the awesome shoving strength of a Foreman, and we're not talking about a post FOTC Frazier here. Frazier could very definitely get out of the opening rounds against Mike, then watch out! Unlike Joe, once Tyson went down, he wouldn't be able to beat the count.

Frazier KO 13 Tyson

 

This is an excellent post I agree with most of it. I didn't think it necessary to point out similar reach because that always WAS a best case scenario for Tyson.

While I pick Tyson to win (but I'm not putting money her), I will also say that Joe Frazier was a far greater fighter than Mike Tyson as indicated by his achievments and also with the greater success I think he'd achieve against fellow ATGs. Infighting, work rate, ability to fight back when hurt, CONSTANT bobbing and weaving is superior to sporadic bobbing and weaving, STRATEGY (simple: he'd work the body and get your head later). Joe Frazier would have KO'd Tokyo Douglas by round 11, decisioned Evander Holyfield, and let's not irrelevantly argue this one but just accept it as me dishing out my opinion - Joe Frazier would have worn down Lennox Lewis and stop him late into the fght. It isn't that Tyson wasn't great, Joe Frazier was just greater.

Head to head: Tyson wins (not everything is straightforward as in A>B C>B, C>A etc).

 

I disagree.

Fraziers uper body movment was among the best of any fighter on film and that includes guys in the lighter weight clases. His slip and duck rate per round is off the scale for a heavyweight.

 

It'd been nice, but hey, Tyson can deal with that.

That is a SERIOUS sytle problem for Joe. Remember, when Holyfield was hurt in round 5, he kept clinching and smothering Tyson rather than brawling. Douglas and Lewis did not brawl with Tyson but kept a distance. Joe Frazier makes himself available? Bad idea.

Tyson was always a sucker for uppercuts - something Joe was not known for nor was it part of his style. Also, Joe Frazier's blind eye meant that he couldn't use the right hand very well - the single punch that all three of Tyson's worthy conquerors exploited to beat him. The cards are just not properly lining up for Joe Frazier!

I don't know, Tyson was a pretty good puncher. Incredible handspeed (of course, Frazier has dealth with Ali) and many angles. I do see him tagging and hurting Joe, even with only a few shots that do land.

This is why I'm not putting money here. This is daunting.

Just a few of Tyson's punches upstairs would do more damange IMO. And he was a superior puncher to Quarry with better accurcy.

 

Not sure on all that. Tyson that lost to Lewis was not prime Tyson though. And had lets say the later Fraizer, post 3rd Ali fight came in vs Lewis, I expect Joe to lose.

I think Holyfiled vs Fraizer would be close. I think Tyson in regards to Fraizer for Holyfiled 1 was the post Ali 1 fight. So Fraizer would perhaps beat Holyfiled.

 

:bbb :smoke Tyson ko 1 frazier......no doubt in my mind ....

 

If Foreman couldn't do it in 2 rounds of straight punching, how do you expect Tyson too? I say Tyson wins in 5 right before Joe gets smokin'.

 

Marvis lasted about 28 seconds ...his father could double that ..

 

Frazier TKO 11 Tyson.

 

10000001 times ............

 

Let me tell you a couple of three things;

Forget Tyson post prison

Forget that Tyson had the better chin and is more likely to handle Frazier's shots than vice versa

Forget than Tyson had better handspeed, power and accuracy.

Joe Frazier can be stopped early. The fact that he's relentless and has a massive heart means absolutely nothing considering the calibre of fighter that Mike Tyson is. You don't beat Tyson by slugging with him. And if you are to beat Tyson you at some point going to need a weather his storm. Considering thier two styles, I dont think Joe weathers the storm, he just won't match up well.


Also:
Hobgoblin puts more stock in the constant bob and weaving as opposed to the sporadic bob and weaving. which is fine if you prefer Joe's style and the aesthetic quality in seeing a fighter execute that style. But in terms of effectiveness it should be noted that Tyson suffered far less Knockdowns during his prime than Frazier did and was additionally more difficult to hit than Frazier.

 

I favor only two fighters in history to beat Tyson when they come at him from the first bell: Foreman and Louis.

 

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