A prime Pernell Whittaker.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by teeto, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    28,075
    Likes Received:
    54
    Yeah the only clear cut better aspect is that infighting ability for me as well, in an overall sense.
     
  2. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    401
    Nobody has said Pernell can't punch, but his knockout ratio speaks for itself. Either he had very good power but didn't have the offensive capabilities to score knockouts on a consistent basis or he had okay power, nothing to write home about. It's obviously the latter.

    Pernell was obviously the better pure boxer at long range, and the jab is one of the main reasons. He was better defensively, we've established that also, but I wouldn't be so quick to put him on the same level as Ray offensively. Like I said, their knockout ratios speak for themselves, when Ray worked in combination he was dealing out more damage. Power is a big attribute when considering offense, and this is where Ray was superior.

    Pernell vs Hearns at 147? I assume Hearns would be outboxing Pernell on the outside, and he'd be down heavily on the scorecards nearing the 15th round. Whereas Ray scores the knockout thanks to his often underrated power, I think Pea would just lose. One of the reason why I wouldn't ever describe Pernell as a "better fighter". Ray had the equalizer, and we can over exaggerate how much pop Pea had, but he didn't have that kind of power.
     
  3. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    :-( "Wrong Bill!"





    :happy "Agreed!"

     
  4. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    173
    Power is the end result of punches landing. IMO, probably the least important aspect of good offense. What about accuracy and variation to the body and head over a sustained period of time? Whitaker handed out some heavy beatings to opponents. I think his offense against Ramirez is probably better than anything Leonard ever showed.
     
  5. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    28,518
    Likes Received:
    82
    Whitaker was a very good infighter (he hung with JCC & even bested him a lot there), very good at hitting & not getting hit inside (extremely difficult to do, very hard), SRR was also a good infighter but his was based almost entirely on offense, the way he could let his hands go & damage his opponents put them on the defensive, both were effective, maybe Pea`s way was more artistic tho.
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,744
    Likes Received:
    88
    Robinson does not even have an all time great jab imo. He is never mentioned amongst the best jabbers of all time, because he simply isn't amongst that lot.

    He's a great fighter for other reasons. Foremost amongst them being that he is able to absorb horrific amounts of punishment and retaliate with the most explosive offensive arsenal ever seen in the squared ring.
     
  7. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    173
    Robinson was brilliant at throwing to the body with both hands and finishing to the head.
     
  8. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    401
    I personally find Ray signficiantly out landing and stopping the undefeated prime Wilfred Benitez a more impressive display of offensive fighting than Pea beating on a Ramirez? He had no choice but to sustain his work for a longer period of time because he couldn't get his man out of there. You claim power is the least important aspect of a good offense, do you consider Pernell a better combination puncher than Ray?
     
  9. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    28,518
    Likes Received:
    82
    When I 1st read this post, I didnt see the part at the top, I only saw the :happy "Agreed" part & I thought to myself.... :admin`he`s actually agreeing with me on this ?`

    Then I saw the :-( "Wrong Bill" at the top & everything made sense again.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Good stuff :good
     
  10. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    15,221
    Likes Received:
    173
    Equally as good, yes.
     
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Great power, great combination punching, great footwork, great off the back foot or the front. An all-round amazing fighter.

    But there were definite areas that Pea was the better boxer though. To say the only thing Whitaker was better than him at was 'dodging punches' is crazy IMO.
     
  12. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,744
    Likes Received:
    88
    Even when he did do it though, it was usually leaping into it, not from an infighting posture. More often that not on film you see him grappling on the inside and allowing his opponents to get blows off on him and concentrating on getting his work done on the outside after the clinch is broken.
     
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    :lol::good Normal service has been resumed!
     
  14. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    401
    I concede that Pernell was probably better at body punching, but Leonard just threw combination's on a more consistent basis than Pea. That coupled with the fact Leonard often sparked out decent opposition (Green), and knocked out top tier opposition (Benitez, Hearns). They could both put combinations together with the very best, but it was Ray who got to his opponents quicker and more often.
     
  15. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    13,744
    Likes Received:
    88
    Yeah and a ridiculously good chin.

    On the topic of infighting, think about this: Whitaker faced plenty of aggressive fighters in his career and mixed it up on the inside with plenty of them. Now how often do you remember him being beaten on the inside? You'd have to think hard about a time someone even LANDED a good body punch on him.