Roy Jones vs. a prime Carlos Monzon at MW

Peak Monzon would beat the Jones who beat Hopkins. Best ever Jones was around 1996 at smw. In 1993, he was not quite at the apex of his powers, and it would take a very special middleweight to defeat Monzon. I'm not sure history has produced one yet.

 

You don't have to put in an "IMO" to avoid the wrath coming your way for a dizzy post. You need to take a month off and go learn about Monzon and watch the film. Then post. Because as it is, it is clear to me that you spent 2 and a quarter minutes on youtube to get convinced of something that you went into the debate convinced of ahead a time: that Monzon is "too slow" to deal with Jones.

...
First we are subjected to some wee one bragging about Jones fighting with his hands behind his back and now we are subjected to you bringing up his disrespecting boxing by playing sem-pro basketball before a title defense. The fact is, he did both of those things against non-threats. See, when you are a talented fighter and you choose ordinary guys to look good against, you can afford to do things like this.

Show that you know the difference between style and substance.

 

Okay Stonehands I respect your opinion but you mention he would be too strong for Roy. And I have been hearing this for a long time being passed around from one poster to another. I know you are smarter than that.

I saw a certain writer at some other site whose name I wont say telling me how his strength would have be too much for Hagler or Roy. This guy who posed as a writer would spout all kinds of garbage saying how Monzon would pushed opponents around and so on.

But arent they all the same weight class? So how can anyone say Monzon is stronger than someone like Roy? And like someone said earlier, did not Roy handle supermiddle, lightheavyweights and even heavyweights?

I would think the natural strength of Ruiz would have posed a problem for him over the course of the bout but in fact, the speed of Roy Jones proved to be the problem for John; he couldnt solve Roy's style and neither could anyone else. Roy was always able to set the tone of the fight quickly

What I would look how each man copes with the style of the other. Roy is deceptively quick for someone so muscle bound while Monzon is built strictly for long range sparring-adept at the finer points of boxing, alot of finesse and expert at tying his man up at the right time.

Forget monzon's jab tho. Roy beats him to it every time with his right lead. It's almost like facing a southpaw. Whether from long range or on the inside, it's Roy's fight. And I dont even see how Monzon can even prepare for his style becuz no body was ever successful at that style but Roy himself.

Roy is way too unconventional style Monzon will never solve, not even over 15 rounds.

 

maybe in the ring but outside of it he was a ***** and a total dick head he deserved to die

Hopkins knows his history very well. I would pick Hagler and SRR definitly over BHOp aswell

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As to the thread title

I just think Monzon is far too clever and far too good of a ring general fro Jones. Also Carlos was almost always the slower fighter in a fight but he nuetralised it very very well.

 

Sometimes, my friend, conventional wisdom is correct. Monzon was very strong -his contemporaries all saw this, other fighters, analysts, and trainers like Dundee who was in Napoles corner. He had that leaden presence that you may not readily see but you could assuredly feel in the ring.

Don't be so enamored by oversized pecs and deltoids, RR, serious physical strength is beyond mere muscle definition. Have you ever shook the hand of a country farmer? You get the idea.

Believe that Monzon would be the physical boss in there, even as he gets outlanded by Jones... until he starts finding that range and landing those heavy, debilitating shots.

You contradict your own reasoning here. I thought that you were confusing effectivness with strength. Jones would outbox Ruiz all day, but he isn't a stronger man than Ruiz and he deferred that point early. And I'm convinced that Jones was on the juiced since at least Paz. Either way, the point stands.

Inside?? Roy was no inside fighter. Monzon would be the boss inside. And many fighters slipped Monzon's jab, but it was a set-up shot for Carlos, it's what's coming after it that is the problem.

And you neglect one key characteristic of Roy that changes the whole complexion of the fight. It's the key characteristic that many on ESB overlook in these hypotheticals with Roy. Roy wasn't looking for any more challenges than he absolutely HAD to face to maintain his stature. Roy would not be so big on facing the nightmare that was Monzon and it would show in his style. Unlike Roy, Monzon was fearless and utterly confident. He didn't give a f--- about much of anything. Roy took great care in who he chose to fight. He was WORSE than your hero Sugar Ray Leonard.... and you should know that!

In addition to the points already made:
1. Monzon takes Roy's shots. Monzon had 100 fights... never stopped.
2. Roy's can't be counted on to stand up to Monzon's shots.
3. Psychological pressure... Monzon is coming, coming, coming, and banging, banging, banging. Roy will be in retreat and reduced to potshotting from outside.

---McGrain sums it up well above. You guys overestimate MW Jones. Monzon, Hagler, Greb, and Robinson are the elite of the division... and Jones didn't have the experience to handle those 4 Titans at 24 years old.

And that's about all there is to say. No one else better vote for Jones in this *?#&#^! poll.

 

Correct:yep Monzon would have possibly TKO Roy in the last 3 rounds if not it would have been a big UD, Roy would have had his moments but would have been got 2 by Monzon from the 8th onwards, Monzon could do everything Roy could but BETTER:bbb

 

You make some good points S89.

 

Perhaps not on resume, but on ability that should be a five and include Bernard Hopkins IMO.

 

No need to get riled, I'll take your word for it. I am of the belief that youth many times will overcome but Monzon was fighter of the 70s. Then again, Roy was fighter of the 90s. Not Pernell, but Roy!

Monzon surely has impressive credentials as his record shows but if it came down to betting money as I like to do on big fights I'd be interested in knowing how his edge in experience compensates for the difference in speed between the two.

 

Over 15 rounds, Monzon wins a comfortable decision. At 168, the results might be reversed. However, Monzon is the greater middleweight.

 

Listen, I'd favor Roy Jones over the majority of MWs that ever lived. But not and never the Titans.

You don't seem to see that Monzon had far more than an "edge in experience" -he had 75 more fights at that weight than did Jones. He was also exceptionally strong, had a solid chin, placed his shots well, hit very hard, was relentless, applied pressure that eventually broke tougher men than 24 year old Jones down, and had serious stamina. Jones was a dynamo who hit like hell, had ultra-fast reflexes and speed, but he's not going to overcome this Titan. He had neither the experience nor the disposition to go to the hell that Monzon would bring him. Too young, too unseasoned, and it's going to take more than athleticism.

I've been known to make predictions and bets too. And I'd bet heavily on Monzon, especially if it's over 15.

 

Roy Jones has the potential to beat Carlos Monzon...Speed at middleweight is off the charts, carried his power up to light heavyweight, difficult, unorthadox style...Everyone thinks it's heresy to give Jones a shot(?)
Jones is flash and dash, but he possessed shocking speed and the power to make an opponent go into a shell...Futhermore, he has the movement to circle away from Monzon's jab and use his left hook against Monzon when he jabs. The underated Jean Claude Bouttier did this at times with Monzon in their first fight with some success, but did not stay with it due to Monzon's pressure.
With Monzon, however, you are talking about an ATG middleweight, not a policeman, a trash collector, or a school teacher...a tough minded, life hardened individual who owned one of the longest winning streaks at 160 lbs. An ATG middleweight.... Watch how Monzon breaks Benvenuti down in their first fight, banging him behind the head with rabbit punches, slamming him in the kidneys. Angelo Dundee said that Monzon purposely thumbed Napoles during their fight in the post fight interview. This is professional boxing and these tactics would take a physical toll, and also take Jones completely out of his comfort zone, and mentally out of the fight. I think that Jones is capable of winning alot of the early rounds, but the longer the fight goes, the more momentum Monzon would gain.(IMO)
Addendum: I don't want it to sound as though Monzon's only avenue is by using roughhouse tactics, but I feel Monzon could and would do whatever it took to win the fight, whereas, Jones would not...Monzon also presents problems with his style as well.

 

Hopkins wasn't even good enough to be better than Segundo Mercado yet; how can you say he was better than Monzon or anyone he fought?

What exceptional strength did he show at 160? Both Hopkins and Castro bulled him around on the inside.

His most notable opponents at 160 were Castro and Hopkins, and he didn't "destroy" either of them. He won lackluster fights in which both were able to get inside and rough him up, and Hopkins took several rounds from him.

 

Roy Jones has better names on his resume than Monzon

Monzon has also faced a shitload of more bums than Roy

Roy has a better chance of knocking out Monzon then the other way around

Jones was way bigger than Monzon

Jones is stronger than Monzon

Jones is faster than Monzon