Hagler vs Leonard

What you don't understand is how often we've had to deal with the same thread time and time and time again, in the past.
And it's changed nothing.

 

"...WE'VE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT"?What the hell does that mean?Fists,I have a simple solution for you.Stop reading this thread.Or,if it comes up again,don't read it.Simple solution.You don't have to read it if you don't want to.The same goes for those who don't want to read about it anymore.Just don't open the thread and read.Fists,nobody is forcing you to do anything.

 

leonard chose to fight hagler when he did cause he new hagler was all but finished,he conned rounds held and hit got some love from the judges but he was coming off a long time away from fighting himself so he has showed how smart he is by the way he fought personally i thought hagler won .but what sticks in my mind is the fact that leonard waited until hagler was almost shot so does that mean he waited cause he did not believe he could of beaten a better version of hagler

 

Yes,he was.Hagler looked like **** against Mugabi a whole year before the Leonard fight.One of his eyes was closed and he was bleeding over both eyes.He was always a bleeder but against Mugabi he was getting hit all over the place without being able to get out of the way.Watch the fight again. And Mugabi was knocked out in the 3rd round in his next fight only 9 months later by juniormiddleweight Duane Thomas.When they fought,Leonard was the one who was past his prime,but not shot.Hagler was shot.He every bit as shot when he fought Leonard as Leonard was when Leonard fought Terry Norris.

 

Couldn't agree more.Just why did Leonard wait so long to fight Hagler?Nobody in the Leonard camp wants to answer that.

 

Leonard never knew what he'd face on the night. He had a lot of confidence in beating Hagler based on a poor showing against Mugabi. It wasn't set in stone that Hagler would perform the way he did. Hell, Hagler could well have suddenly turned back the clock and put on a prime performance like he did against Hearns.

Leonard never had a crystal ball.

 

true about the crystall ball but he played the odds on how shot hagler was
did`nt leonard actually say that he saw something the night hagler fought mugabi i believe what he saw was the fact that hagler was almost shot and ready to be beaten

 

He didn't need one.You can't deny Leonard's intelligence and cunning.He and Hagler knew each other very well,well enough that Hagler thought he was his friend.Leonard spent a lot of time around Hagler at events and in social situations.He was waiting for Hagler to become shot and waiting for Marvin to discuss how he found it diffucult to get motivated,which is exactly what happened by the way.As much as I hate his ****ing guts,Leonard is not only one of the best fighters that I've ever seen in my life,he is easily THE MOST intelligent fighter I've seen as well.Do you honestly believe that Marvin was going to improve on his woeful performance against Mugabi a full year later when he fought Leonard,especially after having 66 pro fights,having fought some wars against Philly's finest and being at least 32(probably more,no one never really knew)?You said it yourself,as in,do you think that Leonard believed that Hagler was going to be better when they were to fight?Of course not.But he claimed to have had a lot of confidence in beating Hagler long before the performance against Mugabi,or so he had publicly said,including after Marvin's uninspired performance against Duran.And Hagler didn't "perform well" against Tommy.He never tried to box him.There was no attempt to slip punches and parry on Marvin's part.He bludgeoned Tommy with absolute superiority in toughness.I don't think Marvin threw a true jab in the whole fight,despite having a world class right jab for most of his career.Now,I present the question yet again.Even though he publicly mentioned the possibilty of a fight with Marvin throught a great part of his career,why did Leonard wait so long to decide to fight Hagler?

 

Well, that would mean that Leonard was a better judge of Hagler's capacities, than Hagler himself.... that says something about how smart Leonard was :think

As much as I don't like, I can't criticize Leonard for being so slick and smart. At the end of the day, boxing is a sport, but also a business. He saw a breach and wen for it.

In any case, it is still Hagler the one who screwed himself :verysad

 

Yes,he did.

 

history is full of fighters that wont except thier time is over and they should retire like ali when he fought holmes why should hagler be any different very few fighters get out at the right time who wants to admit thier getting old so perhaps leonard had a better view than hagler:think

 

Correct.I couldn't agree more.Why do you think Hagler is so bitter to this day?He is as mad at himself as he is at Leonard for allowing himself to be conned.And Leonard was a better judge of many a fighters' capacities than they were,as well as their weaknesses,characteristics,etc,not just Hagler.It's a massive part of what made Leonard such a great prizefighter.I've said it many times and I'll say it again.As smart as Leonard was inside the ring,he was just as smart outside of it.He was/is extremely insightful and the master manipulator.But again,why did Leonard wait so long to fight Hagler after discussing it publicly many times throughout his career?

 

Yep, I also remember all the Leonard-hype; that was nauseating, but it is also true that it was good for boxing's popularity and boxing's business :deal


And yep, I agree with a lot of what you say about the pressure on Hagler. But at the end of the day, the decission and the blame still rest on Hagler's shoulders. He was not a poor tomato-can forced to fight to pay for his mother's medical bills. He was a multimllionaire, ATG, already with a cemented legacy, who was at the end of his career.

If he was shot. Then, why he accepted to fight Leonard? Why he didn't quit after Mugabi?.

I don't know the reasons (greediness, pride, media pressure, a score to settle) but Hagler decided to fight Leonard, and in my book, if you accept a fight is because you think you have some chance of winning (even if that chance is very small).

If Marvin miscalculated his chances, then he can just blame himself. He is not the first, and won't be the last fighter, who tried to stick for too long and got burned. Ali, Duran, Holyfield.... you name them. Just add Hagler name to the list.

I am not Leonard fan, and certainly I agree that there are some controversial things in his career. But I can't blame him for being smarter than Hagler :hey

 

SRL got a gift

 

True.Neither do I,but it did take Marvin awhile to accept Leonard's challenge because he'd been considering retirement for awhile anyway,although he had waited for a long time for Leonard to grow the onions to fight him,too.But my point all along has been that Leonard knew Hagler was shot and that's why he decided to fight him when he did.If Hagler hadn't been shot,Leonard would have continued to duck him.And in your first five paragraphs,you can replace Hagler's name with Leonard's and Leonard's name with Terry Norris' with the same situation applying to a shot Leonard.You can add Leonard's name to that list of fighters that realized too late that they were shot,too.Let's not even mention the Camacho-Leonard fight,shall we?