Marciano..... the greatest cruiserweight.... if he was around today?

I want to know your top 10 heavyweights ranking. I also want to know how you would think Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson, Jack Dempsey, or Joe Louis would do against Vitali Klitschko. I also want to know how you think Rocky does against his predecessor and some of the successors up until the late 70's.

 

Is that an order or a request ?

 

Yeah, I'm ordering you. What are you 5? It may seem stronger in tone because I've already asked you more than once. I'm just curious, because it seems like you're selective against Marciano in terms of his size/weight in terms of a fighter when compared to his predecessors and some successors. If you remember, most of the boxing legends picked Marciano over Ali for the computer fight.

 

Just a joke there Pete ...

I think Vitali could handle Patterson and Dempsey on size ... He's too slow to have caught Frazier early and Joe would have out worked him over 15 for sure. Louis would have done a number on him ...

Rocky ... a great cruiser limited by size and style against some of the biggest men ...
I see Liston crushing him. Frazier stopping him late in a war. Ali and Holmes cutting him up and decisioning him. Holyfield decisioning him. Tyson crushing him. Lewis doing to him what he did to Francis Bothra .. just tough match ups for Rocky ...

Definately top ten all time heavyweight up till his own time period, just does not match up after ...

 

I think we have to seriously consider Rocky's chances against other Champions especially the ones that came along later like Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman and maybe even the Klitschko brothers. I for one don't subscribe to the notion that size is everything. However when you add size, athleticism and skill together combined with say a good punch and a good chin then size does matter. I have a hard time believing that Rocky could defeat the men I mentioned above. All possess distinct advantages in height, reach and weight and most also have the edge in speed ,both hand and foot. And while there is no doubt that Rocky could punch, he never fought good skilled men the size of the aforementioned men above as well. Going life and death with a 185lb Charles in two fights or being pushed to the brink by a light heavy in Moore or landing everything but the kitchen sink on an ex middleweight like Cockell before finally stopping him in the latter stages of the fight doesn't convince me that he could defeat the likes of Ali or Holmes or Holyfield or bombers like Tyson or Foreman. They're either too big and powerful or too big and skilled (and fast as well). Against a big overweight plodder which we see more of today unfortunately Rocky would have a picnic. Against the truly big skilled and/or powerful big boys I don't like his chances. The one rap against Marciano that most experts agree on is that he never really faced a truly big puncher in his prime. Could Rocky survive an all out onslaught by a quick big bomber like Tyson, or a powerful clubber like Foreman? Or the well placed bombs by a giant like Lewis? I'm somewhat doubtful. Would Rocky's punches have the same effect on these much larger men? We're not taliking about light heavies who put on 10 pounds to take on Rocky. These are truly big men who hit a lot harder than the men Rocky fought. When you really look at the hard facts it wakes you up a bit to the reality of it all. Rocky was a great fighter and an all time great HW champion. Give him all the credit he deserves for what he did in his own time which was remarkable but I think it's a reach to think he would defeat the great HW champs that followed him. Impossible? Of couse not. Likely? No.

 

I think all but Joe Louis lose emphatically. And Joe Louis don't win that often against Vit.

I would say "Sorry" but I don't think bubbles made of iron (or denial) are burstable.

 

No he would be a 205lb Mike Tyson

 

Tyson was at his best at 215-220 and at this weight was faster both hand and foot than Rocky. Was technically superior and i believe heavier handed than the 185lb Rocky. I dont think Rocky 20lbs heavier is going to improve any of these things.

 

:good

 

Jim , excellent post.

SQ: Tyson had a completely different body frame than Tyson. He was sloped shouldered and smaller boned. At 205 he would just be stockier ...in addition he had no where near Tyson's speed and the weight would just hurt him.

I actually think Louis, who excelled against large men would get inside and break Vitali down. While Vitali is a far superior fighter to Carnera, I see that sort of destruction ultimately ...

Ali
Holmes
Johnson
Lewis
Louis
Holyfield
Tyson
Vitali
Liston
Foreman
Frazier
Bowe

These are heavyweight champions I feel defeat Marciano. Most are post his title reign. There are also mutltiple contenders I feel could do the trick as well. All have significant physical advantages match ups in non-heabyweight divisions would not have ...

Now if we do pre-title champs I rate him right in the group of:

Dempsey
Tunney
Schmeling
Sharkey
Corbett
Sullivan
Jeffries

On a given night I see him able to give any of these guys hell. IN the case of Rocky, based on his style and physical limitations, I just see him have too many challanges against the best bigger men ...

 

Toney could not beat Moore or Charles...Marciano would give him a serious beat down and KO Toney in about 10-15 in a beatdown

 

I see Rocky pounding out a pretty clear decision over Toney but I'm not sure about a KO ..

 

Don't inject reality into this discussion. Rocky would look like a bowling ball at 205. And he certainly wouldn't be any quicker of hand or foot.

I don't see why some can't take a fighter- a great fighter- just for what he was... a great 185 lb fighter, h2h one the very greatest sub-200 fighters ever. Isn't that enough accolades?

 

Seamus I respect you as a poster but do you have to bang on about everybody who disagrees with you on this issue being delusional.

Is it to much for you to comprehend that we might actualy sincerely believe what we say?