Fighters that could achieve proper balance regardless(Ali)-guys you never see get set

That is my point Greg, it's not a case of he used to be, it's a case of him being a versatile fighter who has the option to employ brilliant educated pressure, or box, and it's also a case of him being very effective in one role and not in the other, at world class level that is. As a boxer his defense is not great, and he should refrain from fighting this fight in my opinion the majority of the time. As an eduacted pressure fighter, his effectiveness trumps that of as a boxer by miles. It's not like he's lost the ability to fight that fight effectively anymore, no way at all.

 

Sweet Pea got me into him. Very well balanced fighter. The only fighter i could say at a stretch is better (in terms of the question) is Napoles (going by the first Cokes fight which was him at his best)


I thought of this today, it came randomly to me at lunch

Perfection is flawed.

That sums up your 'being too technical' thoughts

 

This is a very interesting take that I haven't seen before. Would like to hear what Stonehands have to say about it.

Roy Jones is of course similar to Ali in this regard. And I think their way to sacrifice orthodoxy for effectiveness was especially hard for well schooled counter punchers like Quarry and Toney. These were guys that read their opponents according to the textbook and when the other guy threw the text book out the window...

 

Oh yeah i understood your original point on Cotto completely, i just wanted to praise the good work of Cotto there. Maybe it was out of place here, but it's all relevant in a light, just to add to the thread.

Over-educated, haha, that's good.

 

against lesser opposition his eductaed pressure looks superb but what world class fighter has he used it aginst.

When faced with the top fighters in the world Cotto reverts to boxing (Mosley, Margarito, Clottey). This leads me to doubt he is as good at educated pressure at the top level as he is in th second tier (Jennings, Malignaggi)

Mayweather could be a clever educated pressure fighter against 2nd rate opposition

 

Well even if he has employed his educated pressure to success against lesser opposition, but good opposition, isn't one of the many marks of a top level fighter, HOW you dispose of the lesser opposition? It surely is. And he absolutely obliterated Malignaggi and Judah with just them tactics, who i know you will come back and say are not at the highest of levels, but they were good fighters who Cotto emphasised the gap in class against. Also, on occasion when reverting to boxing, he hasn't done so well, getting brutalised by Margarito, and not being convincing to all against Mosley.

 

Teeto my point is against the top fighters he hasnt used his pressure he has instead boxed so we dont know how good a pressure fighter he is at th top level

i agree he was impressive agaisnt Judah, Malignaggi etc.. and not impressive against Marg, Mosley, Clottey when boxing

 

Yeah that's what i mean as well, i just meant that so far in his career, i have personally come to the conclusion that he should try and use the pressure style more often, he's certainly strong enough to impose himself physically for my liking, and has the skillset. Maybe it's a confidence thing though, against the world class harder hitters of the world, who as you say, he's opted to box against.

 

exactly Teeto we agree

 

IMO balance comes from your back, i bet these guys have strong back muscles as it holds the body together to throw at weird angles etc... Its spinal

 

In a sense i understand what you mean, them strong back muscles and an unorthodox movement can, for the most talented and poised of fighters, come together to equal a defense which is inpregnable

 

There's no one perfect.

This is the essence of this thread. balance is hard to define but Teeto were getting of track trying to define it

 

I'll say Roy Jones Jr...Very explosive puncher without having to get set...Some kind of talent.

 

The Ali way, do stick and move and dance like that, was something I loved and started to use my self 25 years ago, he he! Yeah, I´m old.
The thing is you can get hard punches during this, it´s all about timing and practice of course.time your punches with your feet that is one of the secrets and it takes a long time training this doing it as fast as Ali did, but hey, that´s what the gym are for, right.
I agree Ali - Williams is pure art.
The Predator