Fighters that could achieve proper balance regardless(Ali)-guys you never see get set

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jul 18, 2009.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v1Ct2DFRQQ&feature=related

    Charley Burley was a weird and good example. He was reliant upon speed (probably more so here than is normal, given his size disadvantage) and so had to remain mobile, and despite a "tight" fighting style, loose in terms of balance. Burley, in this film, shows an interesting technique for generating power. As he transfers his weight he "spears", or pushes his weight forwards behind his punch, mainly the jab. It's an odd one, but it works well here, and by the second half of the fight he is backing the bigger man up. For a good example check out 0.10 seconds, Burley transfers his weight onto his left side, but carries on through the momentum of this movement, driving the jab forwards with his whole body. A very interesting way of avoiding arm-punch delivery when coming from a place of less than perfect balance. Immediatly afterwards, at about 0.15 seconds, he slips a punch to his own left presenting a natural punching attempt given that technique. Burley misses, but imagine trying to solve this issue as the man in the other corner? A fighter transfering his weight so plainly is counterable, but Burley is so fast and coming forwards almost at the same time as he is going left, with a punch...very tough to counter.

    It's a beautiful marriage of speed with punching and mobility.

    Burley also had traditional punching techniques despite the low hands and style. He throws a right hand at around 1.25 which reminds me of Sugar Ray Robinson's body-punching, wide, but perfectly timed and very hard.
     
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2009
    #76
  2. Chinxkid

    Chinxkid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    One thing that just occurred to me, watching the Jones/Toney fight, was that technique, proper technique, is something you learn in the gym, in the early stages. Some guys master that technique and become scientific marvels. Others find it a hindrance, their gifts and imaginations see another way, a better way for them. And so, usually against the advice of all but the trainer with the keenest eye, they start breaking the rules. If it works, nobody has many complaints.

    Enjoyed that clip of Burley, McGrain. Is that the only footage that exists of Burley? I noted what you pointed out, and it certainly was effective. Seems to me that fighters sense the shoulder movement of an opponent as a clue to where the next shot is coming from. Now, how a fighter uses that information is where the creativity comes in. Sorry to bang on about Pep, but if you'll notice, he seems quite aware of an opponent's keying on his shoulders and so what he does is use a lot of shoulder feints, two, three, four, watching how his guy reacts. When he goes for one of Pep's feints more often than not Willie comes with the other hand. I think a definitive example of boxing as a chess match. Luring your guy, and then coming with the other hand, or at times, coming with the same hand so that you can't be patterned yourself.
     
    Chinxkid, Jul 22, 2009
    Chinxkid, Jul 22, 2009
    #77
  3. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I tend to lean more on the God-given talent side of things. There is simply no explanation for some of the genius we see.
     
    fists of fury, Jul 22, 2009
    fists of fury, Jul 22, 2009
    #78
  4. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, and notice the pivot...
     
    fists of fury, Jul 22, 2009
    fists of fury, Jul 22, 2009
    #79
  5. Arka

    Arka New Member Full Member

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    Ali lacked in high quality instruction in his early years.Being resourceful,he compensated by intensely developing his physical talents.

    Also through thousands of rounds of sparring and competitive bouts he underwent a form of self-programming ; he began to understand his own strengths and weaknesses- how to maximise the former and minimise the latter. During these years through a process of self discovery-more so than most fighters-he gained a concrete,intuitive grasp of the fundamentals of boxing.

    Ali was the opposite of the "mechanical fighter".
     
    Arka, Jul 22, 2009
    Arka, Jul 22, 2009
    #80
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Pea

    Balance is a side product of good footwork and balnce is essential for good footwork so of course it will over lap.

    McGrain excellant anaylisis of Burley.

    Also great stuff on Pep, Chinx, Pep really knew how to decieve an opponent into thinking different from pep
     
    GPater11093, Jul 22, 2009
    GPater11093, Jul 22, 2009
    #81
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, the Oakland Billy Smith footage is all that is available, although this is just the second part of that fight. I really don't think that additional footage will appear. Whilst it's possible that Cocoa Kid footage may one day spring up, Burley just has to many private enthusiasts for new footage to surface IMO. Unless of course it's via one of those stories where a guy just doesn't know what he has. We can hope I suppose.
     
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2009
    #82
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He really does follow through inspite of the odd technque, doesn't he? I wonder if there are clues here as to why he was a less-than-great finisher.
     
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2009
    #83
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not sure. Personally I reckon finishing is as much a product of mentality as anything.
     
    fists of fury, Jul 23, 2009
    fists of fury, Jul 23, 2009
    #84
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    a better question owuld be who was always in position to throw the right punch?
     
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    #85
  11. Chinxkid

    Chinxkid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He seems to get in and score and get out of there pretty quickly. Not much of a combination puncher from what I've seen. As we know it's the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot in a row that usually takes a guy out.
     
    Chinxkid, Jul 24, 2009
    Chinxkid, Jul 24, 2009
    #86
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Based upon the only surviving film, that should be considered spot on.
     
    McGrain, Jul 24, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 24, 2009
    #87
  13. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    McGrain i'm sure one day we will get some more Burley stuff, im sure of it, some of the hoarders will have to die someday and then theres a chance it will be released
     
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    #88
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
    McGrain, Jul 24, 2009
    McGrain, Jul 24, 2009
    #89
  15. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    its true
     
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    GPater11093, Jul 24, 2009
    #90
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