When you have the time, do this by weight division. Real Debate!

Okay, in all seventeen weight divisions, as you see fit, who do you think was the best in the following categories:

1. Offense 2. Defense 3. Completeness.

Note to any participants in this thread- when we talk completeness in this thread, we don't mean it in terms of attributes as in- 'he had it all, speed, power, srength, agility'. It is meant in the stylistic sense, as in a boxer who was not one dimensional, but adaptable and multi-dimensional. Maybe they could brawl, counter, were a good ring general, or maybe the division they were great in was not too deep and they are simply closer to being complete than others in contention here.

The only criteria here is that to qualify for a mention here, the fighter must be in your top ten at the relevant weight class in terms of GREATNESS.

Heavyweight

Offense- I find this hard to separate Tyson and Louis. There are others who have great strength and power, but these two seem of the highest skillset on offense in my opinion. Louis the better knockout artist, and Tyson possibly the more skilled at switching to body head ultilising great speed and creativity, also better on footwork for me, believe it or not.

Louis

Defense- I'm going with Ali, even it is largely a reflex based defense rather than a technically proficient one. I find it so hard to not pick Jack Johnson though, i don't feel good right now.

Ali

Completeness- This is hard in my perception. I like how Johnson can turn the heat on from defense. I like how Holmes can tough it out and has that great mobility. I like Lewis' skillset in terms of punching, plus he can box. They all have something another doesn't, ie maybe there is not one totally complete candidate, though Liston should be mentioned as much as another.

Lewis.

Cruiserweight

Offense- Haye deserves a mention, but

Holyfield

Defense- Toney is good, great actually, but my pick might raise a few eyebrows.

Johnny Nelson

Completeness- Holyfield for me, not much doubt in my mind.

Light Heavyweight

Offense- I'm torn between Charles, Moore ad Foster, for many different reasons. Foster the perfect left hook artist and at times all out force of nature type brawler. Charles the man who hits you with stuff you never see coming, and Moore the craftsmen who can take men out at will, on his game that is.

Charles.

Defense- I've always been so impressed with Loughran, that much that i will pick this matador outright.

Loughran.

Completeness- I'd pick someone like Conteh, the only reason i don't is that he is not in my top ten list. Moore and Charles make the cut, and Tunney for my money is not just a pure boxer, he countered well with ripping shots, and could finish a man well also. Victor Galindez was class for me, but doesn't have much lateral movement.

Moore.

Super Middlweight

Offense- Roy Jones.

Defense- James Toney.

Completeness- I rate Joe Calzaghe's adaptability and vesatility as truly great.

Calzaghe.

Middleweight

Offense- I could pick Tiger, Hagler, LaMotta, and if i was willing to throw him in at number 10, Cerdan. I think the Marvelous one's variety in attack takes it for me though.

Hagler.

Defense- There's always Nunn and Kalambay, and if i had more footage of Burley i reckon he'd get it. My pick is the man who virtually (literally?)never leaves himself open or exposed.

Hopkins.

Completeness- Still Robinson for me, even at the higher weight he can do it all.

Light Middleweight

Offense- I'd have to say Hearns.

Hearns

Defense- I'm picking Winky over McCallum.

Wright

Completeness- McCallum.

Welterweight

Offense- It's my assumption that at welterweight Robinson's attack would likely have been the best ever, but-

Armstrong

Defense- I don't know if Benitez would make my top ten, but Burley might. It will always make for a hell of a lot of controversy picking him, but i've read bucketloads. Also at the weight he seems at his pure peak (with the divisions he had to pick from).

Burley.

Completeness- Jose Napoles on the evidence for me, one of the best supported by evidence for this claim in any division.

Napoles

Light Welterweight

Offense- It's subjective, but i will pick Pryor's all out attack.

Pryor.

Defense- I think he has the best defense ever.

Locche

Completeness- I like Tszyu, but i like Barney Ross.

Ross.

Lightweight

Offense- As i said in Manassa's thread, Duran's ability inside might be of a higher skillset than any other ever.

Duran.

Defense- Whitaker for me.

Whitaker

Completeness- Always i have liked Carlos Ortiz here.

Ortiz

Super Featherweight

Offense- Arguello is my man.

Arguello.

Defense- Mayweather.

Completeness- hard to say as none really strike me to be honest. Probably Mayweather.

Mayweather.

Featherweight

Offense- Saddler makes one of the strongest cases, but i'm opting elsewhere. My choice was relentless, had good footwork at closing the distance, and had good head moevement.

Saldivar.

Defense- Pep.

Completeness- I like Barrera as complete stylistically, a lot actually. But he doesn't make my top ten.

Salvador Sanchez.

Super Bantamweight

Offense- I could pick Erik Morales if i wanted to. I just have to pick Gomez thoguh because of how good he was at mixing it up and downstairs.

Gomez

Defense-I'm not picking the same man for all three categories.

Pintor (had a good technical defenense)

Completeness- I admire how he can keep pressure on at more than one range, i like how he can box on the outside, maintaining distance he is comortable at, and countering, he can also box in a circular fashion.

Gomez.

Bantamweight

Offense- Well i like McGovern for punching, and Zarate as one of the best ko artists ever, but i'm going for the skill factor here, his feet management and accurate unrelenting punching seel it for me.

Olivares.

Defense- I was impressed with Tim Austin, though he's far off my list of greats. Though i clearly haven't seen extensive footage of the man, i'm making this pick.

Brown.

Completeness- Between Canizales and Jofre, i'm picking the greater of the two. jofre could punch accurately at all ranges.

Jofre.

Super Flyweight

Offense- I'd prbably pick Gilberto Roman here.

Roman.

Defense- the afforementioned's great contemporary.

Watanabe.

Completeness- for my money the best of the bunch.

Tapia.

Flyweight

Offense- No matter your size, having this man coming at you is a nightmare.

Lynch.

Defense- One of the finest pure boxers from many accounts, and with a tremendous resuem, gentleman i give you the best of his era.

Miguel Canto.

Completeness- I haven't seen enough of greats like Chitalada and, Ebihara and Arachakov, but Villa always impressed me from accounts and some small amount of footage, a man ahead of his time.

Villa.

Light Flyweight

Offense- The nightmare of all nihtmares, Junk Koo Chang.

Chang.

Defense- Zapata.

Completeness- some of you will remember my reaction when i came across this man. With an air of both Gomez and Calzaghe, i was more impressed in this man than in any in a long time.

Yoko Gushiken.


Strawweight

Offense- Lopez for me on skillset.

Defense- Calderon

Completeness- Lopez.

Phew.:happy

 

Well, yes Pea, it's just as i said, i didn't want the same guy taking all three categories, i know he does though

 

A few hours, your wish is my command.

Just remember the golden rule though, every one of your picks must be in your top ten at the relevant weight class.

 

Fleaman Schwarcheneger.

 

Thoughts? You copied off me.

Kidding, yeah good observations, can't really fault you, all your choices are backed up and justifiable.

 

Yeah i never put Monzon in there myself, but i've always said that the top few middleweights of all time are tremendously difficult to separate in terms of various aspects of boxing.

 

Living the good life then.