Stirring the Jeffries-Johnson pot...

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Was this post on a need to know basis ?
Or are you trying to weed out those who are optically challenged?
At 60 ,I now wear glasses ,if you dont want me to participate ,just say McVey **** off!

 

Clearly, Hart was deprived of the chance to fight Jeffries because he was white.

 

" Hard to find ,and allmost impossible to read" atsch

 

Hart was happy with the colored championship he won over Johnson. Clearly, he did want to risk that vs Jeffries. Wink-wink.

 

It is interesting that Jeffries is accused of ducking Johnson for "months".

Since Jeffries last defended the title in August 04, one can assume that he "ducked" Johnson from August 04 until about March 04. A 6 month period. Hart last drew with Jeffries victim Gus Ruhlin in May 04. You would expect that training for the Johnson fight (and contract signatures) would have been done at least a month before their fight, so the 6 months becomes 5 months at best, probably at least 3 or 4 months, because any title fight is going to take a month or two to negotiate.

When you consider the regularity that Jeffries (or any other champion at the time) defended his title (once or twice a year at best) there really was no prospect of a Johnson Jeffries fight, solely because of the Hart loss. IN the modern world, it would be like criticising Vitali for not fighting David Haye before he retires (assuming David Haye loses a decision to Nicolai Valuev).

 

I have always wondered how history's take on Jeffries might have changed had he hung around a tad longer, beat Marvin Hart, then retired for good...No comeback. Some might have still criticized him for not facing Johnson once he got a bit better, but had he beaten Hart immediately after he beat Johnson, it might have sealed up his legacy, especially if no later loss was added.

 

Perhaps not, but I think it might have rounded off his career a bit, and perhaps silenced a few people who may have later accused him for avoiding Johnson. Let's face it, returning to the ring at the age of 35 and after nearly 6 years of inactivity, only to get beaten by Johnson didn't help his legacy either. It only gave his supporters a little fuel to say " well at least he showed heart in coming out, " but little else. Had he beaten Hart, and never returned, he would have had the claim to retiring undefeated for good after beating the man who beat the next great champ.

Make of it what you will.

 

But he did beat the man who beat the next champion, Jack Johnson. He KOd Hank Griffin. Plus in his second meeting with Griffin, 2 months before Hank Griffin defeated Jack Johnson, Jeffries met Hank Griffin in a 4 round fight that Hank was able to claim a draw in by surviving the 4 rounds, but Hank was knocked down 3 times and apparently survived by running. This match also has apparently been reported as a win to Jeffries, for obvious reasons. Hank's 4 fights with Johnson went a total of 75 rounds with 3 draws and a win to Hank and happened virtually straight after the JeffriesArmstrong exhibition. Cyberboxingzone suggests that there were 3 other reported but not confirmed fights between Johnson and armstrong these 3 fights apparently went a total of 100 rounds. Although in fairness to Johnson (if they did in fact occur), he did KO Armstrong in the 65th round of one of them. Either way, i think it is fair to say that the Armstrong that Jeffries beat was at a very similar level to Johnson.

All this is not considering the unconfirmed Jeffries fights against Denver Ed Martin, who also beat Johnson. Or his Draw with Choynski (which he seems to have been unlucky to only receive a draw) who KOd Johnson. Or even his title defence against Jack Munroe, who in 1904 was outclased and stopped in two rounds by Jeffries but in 1905 fought a 6 round no decision fight with Jack Johnson.

Jeffries could have beaten Hart, he could have beaten Root, Burns, Jeanette, Langford, McVey and of course Johnson. In an ideal world he would have but his failure to do so cannot be held against his legacy by any fair minded person who looks at all the facts. I dont think there ever was or will be any doubt that Jeffries would have beaten Hart if they met (or at least he would be a raging favourite) so i dont think that the Hart fight would have altered his legacy. In fact, i think that even if Jeffries had defeated Johnson, most on here that castrigate him for not facing Johnson would simply make claims that he ducked Langford, McVey and others.

IMO, other than beating Johnson he did everything he possibly could and even his losing effort against Johnson shows that he is going to put in one hell of a game effort against any fighter, no matter how much stronger, faster, and better at landing on him they are. I know i am in the minority, but i really rate the ability of all time greats to fight admirably even when age has meant they are outclassed. Johnson is an all time great and prime for prime who knows he may have even beaten Jeffries, but there was nothing to suggest this would be the case, during Jeffries boxing career as World champion.

In reality, Jeffries cleaned out his division as well as anyone ever cleaned out their division. He was never beaten before his retirement, which only Marciano can say. Like most other all time greats, he was coaxed into fighting when only a shadow of himself, but he was as far gone or further gone from his prime than any other all time great heavy was yet his final performance was every bit as impressive as the late career failures of the like of Sullivan, Ali, Louis etc. And the all time great that it took to beat him turned out to be pretty much as good as any other all time great that finished off some of the other greats. All in all, Jeffries career, if looked at objectively is as good as anyone's and that includes Marciano, Louis, Ali or others. The only possible thing held against him is possibly longevity but so what, Surely it is smarter and better to get out while on top than to do what Ali or even Louis did (or were forced to do) by fighting on when they shouldnt and possibly even having their health suffer because of it.

More than anything, Jeffries suffers from available film syndrome and even lack of knowledge of opponent (and Jeffries) records. Dont be surprised if Jeffries gains quite a few supporters on this board when the Adam Pollack book comes out.

 

McVey, you are a character.