Better Chin: Dempsey or Marciano ?

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Shows you what I love about Marciano, how many guys today could come back from that freak injury cause by an elbow

 

I hardly recall Willard landed anythong of meaning on Dempsey.

I dont think this fight is a chin tester, in the same mode as say Harry Kid Matthews or Walcott II was a chin tester for Marciano.

I relly find it hard how people can judge Dempsey's chin off this one sided beatdown.
Willard was hardly thowing, but he was doing a LOT of catching.
This fight proves Willard's chin more than Dempsey lol.

I think for chin testers for Dempsey, and since only like 7 fights made it, I think perhaps the Sharkey fight is the best test of chin for Dempsey. Or perhaps Tunney. Not sure on my judge on Firpo because it was pretty short.

Walcott hit Marciano more times and with MORE jagged shots in the Marciano 1 fight than Dempsey did vs Willard, Firpo and perhap Carp combin.

I see very few fighters getting out of round 11 of Marciano Walcott 1. In the shape Marciano was in. I think round 11 is Rocky's showing of chin, Walcott was just beating and staggering Marciano, and Rocky would not go down.

 

Listen HE...I am one of the biggest joe louis fans you will ever meet. I don't need to say that either. In fact, I dont think anyone in history of boxing beats joe louis in a h2h matchup.

Here is my case about Joe Louis



1. When you are ONCE the greatest puncher of all time....Even far past your prime, you are still a dangerous puncher. People try to compare a 1950s louis with a prime louis and thats the wrong way of doing it. Instead compare a 1951 joe louis with how he stacked up with the rest of the world. you will find he indeed was still a top 5 hitter in the world in 1951 and one of the biggest top 10 men around in height/weight.

2. Out of the best punchers Marciano fought(Louis Walcott Moore Layne)...which one of them hit harder than Joe Louis? None of them. Louis may have been 37, but Walcott and Moore were 38 and much smaller. Walcott proved a couple years earlier he could not go toe to toe with Louis and survive. Does anyone here think Layne could have gone toe to toe with even a 37 year old Louis and survived? Louis at 6'2 214lb was defintley the hardest one punch banger Marciano fought.

3.. You keep asking how many knockouts did he have in his comeback. Well you have to take into consideration the quality of opposition he faced. Had he feasted on 20-25 tomato cans/washed up men like foreman did in his comeback louis would have scored alot of kayos too. Instead Louis took on top 10 world class men/Fringe Contenders. For example he took on Top 10 Cesar Brion twice. Brion was 6'3 200lber and was known for having a rock chin..The fact louis did not kayo brion should not take credit away from louis power since brion could go the distace with anybody. He then fought Omelio Agramonte a slick fast flashy fighter...Watch the fight Agramonte completley runs away from him for 20 rounds. the one time Louis does land his sunday punch, Agramonte went down in the 2nd round for a 9 count. He then fought hall of fame Jimmy Bivins, who is known for both durability and fighting a cautious defensive fight...these types of fighters are extremley hard for an aging fighter to knock out. You have to remember, most of these fighters all they did was run away from louis...he was too old to catch them with fight finishing combinations. However Louis still had one punch brute power in his 6'2 214lb frame and when he landed, he left some serious swellling on his opponents faces.. I think Marciano should be creditted because he was the only man to fight louis toe to toe and win that battle...of course this was the old louis but how many men could go toe to toe with a 37 year old louis and win? not many IMO.

Of course Louis did show glimpses of serious power in 1950s...His knockout of Durable Pat Valentino was deadly with louis finishihng him off with a lethal combination...valentino out cold through the ropes.

Lee Savold was one of the most durable heavyweights in the world suffering just 2 stoppage losses to big punchers in the past DECADE. Savold was # 2 in the world and Heavyweight Champion BBBC.....Louis knocked him out flat with 1 left hook. A older out of shape savold would take marcianos best without going down, yet one left hook from louis put him down for 10 count.

Freddie Beshore a tough journeyman who went 14 rounds for charles title, went just 4 with louis and if you watch the fight...beshores face was such a bloody mess they had to stop it and he was on the verge of going down.

Both Charles and Marcianos faces looked like they been through meat grinders after tangling with old joe...and he didnt land much on these two. why were there faces marked up so badly? POWER

Future # 1 contender Nino Valdez, also was knocked out in just one round by Joe Louis

Rex Layne a future top contender was knocked out in a exhibition by joe louis trying to go toe to toe with the 37 year old





Though Louis was far past his prime by 1951...I make claim that Louis was still one of the biggest most powerful hitting heavies in the world in early 1950s.

 

You make a valid point about Walcott. He was probably a greater threat in terms of knocking an oponent out than Louis at this stage. The punch that put Marciano down is basicaly the one that seperated Ezzard Charles from his senses and his title.

I do think that there is circumstantial evidence that Louis was still a heavy puncher at this stage even if his reflexes were gone. Most common oponents of Louis and Marciano said that Marciano hit harder but Rex Layne said that Louis hit harder. Jimmy Bivins said that Louis had lost his timing and reflexes but still hit hard.

 

This doesnt make any sense considering Walcott fought Louis a couple years earlier and was knocked out cold in the 11th when he tried to go toe to toe with Louis. Clearly Walcott was not as big and powerful a puncher as Joe Louis was.

 

Even when Walcott fought Louis (a better version) he was more dangerous in some aspects of the game.

Louis was lethal with a combination while Walcott might just be lethal with one punch.

 

At least be original. I called you a schitzo because your opinion seems to be all over the place in this threads. It's as if you've changed your mind a lot or someone keeps jumping on your computer to post for you. Not meant to be a legit insult... just indecisive. Poor wording I suppose.

I actually can buy this. I don't think Walcott was the better puncher but definitely more dangerous at the time. It's more a testament to his toughness/chin. However, I don't think you can just dismiss the Louis fight. He takes some quick short clean shots and takes them well.

 

Cheers mate. That must hurt. dont care what anyone says. :good Look at that gash... Man still makes me go F*&^&( ouch every time.

 

I go with Marciano on the original question.

A. I am slightly more impressed with the punchers Marciano faced than with the punchers Dempsey faced.

B. On film, Dempsey is rocked, down, or staggering around much more than Marciano is. Brennan, Carpentier, Firpo, Tunney, and Sharkey, all hurt him on film, Firpo badly. Only Firpo might be a first rate puncher. We also have to consider what I think was an honest stoppage by Flynn, and the early career knockdowns, including nine by Sudenberg.

The point Boilermaker made I agree with. Marciano stood up to everyone of his era while being hurt less than anyone I can think of. I have to consider his chin of top quality as it never failed. Dempsey seems to have had a very good, but perhaps not quite top level chin, a B+ chin, let's say.

I give Marciano, and also some others such as Jeffries, an edge on Dempsey in whiskers. Of course, I might be wrong, but that is my judgement after studying the records and watching all available film.