pavlik-williams

I watched Williams/Wright on a crappy stream, so I'm sure there were a lot of subtle things I missed. However, you cannot convince me that anything as simple as head movement is enough to rattle Pavlik. And, PW will NOT be able to pull off the kind of footwork BHop did. I've been refering to Bernard's footwork as "tri-directional at unexpected angles." That is simply beyond Paul's ability. It seems to me that people are right back on that same old tired 2006 crap that says Kelly can't box. If Kelly can't box, please make me a list of all the other fighters who scored UD's over Jermain. Hops failed twice, and Winky couldn't do it either, but Pavlik did.

I am working out of town nright now with limited internet access. If fact, right this minute I exp0ect to get busted for being on here any second! I plan to watch plenty of video, and then post something Sunday night. I just hope the hell they actually get this thing signed.

 

jermain taylor cant really box though...

 

paul williams would knock kelly out

 

Nothing wrong with long-winded when a cool breeze is needed in the stagnant air. Every time I see a mega sues2nd post, I crack my knuckles and settle in for some hardcore page-down action. Your analysis is always insightful whether I agree or not. :good

Very valid concerns regarding the reach, workrate, and movement. In terms of power, not that Kolle wasn't a wet napkin, but something tells me Paul does in fact hit as hard as Jermain at 160. The only things I'd counter with are that Paul hasn't had someone his own size or bigger come straight at him - and Pavlik would come straight at him. I also think Kelly's jab would be a little more effective than you say. It is more consistent than Paul's, and would set him up for some good offensive surges unless Williams took his movement to a whole new plateau overnight. Also, the southpaw is a little bit vulnerable to the left hand, as shown in Quintana I, and Kelly's got a pretty decent hook of his own (and it's sure to sting a lot more than El Indio's straight/hook hybrid).

 

Your reading way too into what I said bro.

I never said his head movement (which yes, is at the point of being considered great now) was going rattle Pavlik, I said that it will allow him to manuever past his jab more often than most...but as I said, Pavlik's jab will still be effective, because it is that good.

Also, I stated that his footwork and movement was not at Bernard's level (trust me, I dont think anyone, EVER is at Bernard's level when it comes to footwork). What I said was that he moves alot, and that unlike almost anyone Ive ever seen, when he is moving, it does not effect his workrate one bit (which makes him INSANELY awkward to deal with). I also said that tho Paul's movement isnt as good as Bernard's, it is much faster.

And I stated Pavlik hits harder than anyone Paul has faced and he will test Williams great chin. I stated Pavlik's jab is one of the best in the sport. I stated that Kelly will come at Paul like others have not. I never once even inclined he cant box.

I just think that Williams is the wrong match up for Kelly. That isnt a knock on Pavlik, or his skill level...just a comparison of styles and strengths.

And trust me, I wasnt that high on Williams before Margo or even after it...then after he took that loss to Quintana, its like something woke up in his mind. Since then, he has improved every single facet of his game to an insane degree, all while his competition has improved each time out (outside of stay busy fights like Kolle). Like I said, with his work ethic outside of the ring, his god given abilities, as well as his want and need to improve every single fight out...I honestly think we may be witnessing something special. I dont think there has ever been a fighter like Williams. Its a bold statement, but it may end up ringing true.

 

:good

Thanks bro...means alot. BTW, dont think I ever asked you, what part of Boston you from man? We should take in a fight...

Anyway, definately good points on Pavlik...the only thing I disagree with is, Paul's movement already has improved...to a great degree. Vs Quintana the first time, he kept moving straight backward and stationary (head movement wise...which is why I believe boo was still stuck on his head movement not being good...when in fact it is GREAT now), therefore leaving himself wide open for counters. Thing is, he doesnt do that anymore...not at all! Vs Phillips, he started to show that improved upperbody and head movement...then vs Winky, the straight back movement was completely gone. And because of that, both of them had trouble even connecting with the counter hook off of Paul's offense (the exact thing...coupled with some great use of angles by Carlos...that killed him vs Quintana the first time).

Like I said, none of this was a "bash Pavlik" post. I think it was clearly not...its just I think he doesnt match up well with him. I expect if this fight comes off, us to be in amazement the next day. And even tho I expect it, if it happens, include myself in that.

 

Hey maybe Williams should try and get Pavlik to fight him at 155 and put his title on the line. I mean that seems to be the trend in boxing today..seein that so many dont have a problem with catch weight fights.

I wonder how it would be viewed if Williams asked for that:huh

 

A few points:

1) Williams does NOT have a huge edge in terms of punch output. On a good night, Williams throws 90-110 punches per round. On a good night, Pavlik throws 80-100 punches a round. And when you account for the fact that Pavlik is going to come in looking to back PW up, PW isn't going to be able to choose when he gets off unlike usual.

2) Williams movement is NOTHING like Bernard Hopkins. PW can slip punches, but he is there to be hit. He stands in range. He doesn't lure his opponent in and then suddenly jump in with awkward shots. He moves, then stands in range. You have to remember that PW's height advantage is something that has allowed him to overwhelm opponents; they just can't get inside against him. Against KP, he's at a height disadvantage.

3) Williams DID look like he was a little stunned from some of Winky's punches. Now, Winky never really got off a solid punch in the entire fight, and he's not a big puncher anyway. When Pavlik does land a clean punch, with higher power and a Middleweight standing behind it, it's going to be a totally different ball game.

People backing Williams in this fight are working on the assumption that Williams has somehow inherited the defensive abilities of Bernard Hopkins. He has not. He stands in range when he throws and has a Jermain Taylor-esque "dangly" guard. If Pavlik applies pressure and forces this guy to exchange, Williams is getting chopped down.

It's always possible that someone will do a B-hop on Pavlik, but I don't think Williams is the man. For me, this is just Hagler-Hearns II.

 

That's right, a man who has minimal pop at welterweight is going to KO a guy who was battered around the ring by a LHW for 12 rounds and wasn't even hurt once. atsch

****ing idiot.

 

I'll take Pavlik in about 10 rounds. I think he'll survive some rough moments early to wear the physically smaller Williams down with his heavy handed punches.

 

First, that is not accurate at all. Lets compare...first look at Pavlik's punch stats.

1. Vs Rubio he threw 695 over 9, or 77 punches a round against a fighter who stood directly in front of him and didnt throw back.
2. Vs Hopkins, he threw 463 over 12, 38 punches a round. I will give him a mulligan on this one, as noone throws alot vs Hopkins.
3. Vs Taylor the second fight, he threw 845 over 12, or 70 punches a round. All against a fighter with stamina issues.
4. Vs Taylor the first time, he threw 460 punches over 7 rounds, or 65 a round...again vs a fighter with stamina issues.
5. Vs Miranda he threw 539 over 7 rounds, or 77 a round. Against a fighter who has zero defense.
6. His average over those fights? 65 punches/round per fight.

Never has even averaged 80 punches for a fight...let alone 100. Now lets take a look at Williams.

1. Vs Winky he threw 1086 over 12, or 91 a round.
2. Vs Phillips he threw 682 over 8, or 85 a round.
3. Vs Quintana he threw 800 over 12, or 66 a round in his worst fight as a pro.
4. Vs Margo he threw 1256 over 12, or 104 a round.
5. His average? 86 punches/round per fight.

21 punches per round more...and as I stated, your 80-100 was about as inaccurate as you could get.

Noone said it was. What was said is that his movement is good, his head movement is great...and even tho its not as good as Bernard's (again, I think Bernard has the best movement in ring ever), it IS faster.

And as for the height disadvantage? You are correct, Pavlik is 6'2, Paul is 6'1. BUT, Paul has an 82" reach to Pavlik's 75" one. That my friend is not a height advantage at all.

Ive watched that fight about 10 times...never was Paul hurt. Williams chin so far over his career has been excellent. But, as I said, Pavlik is the biggest puncher that he has faced, so I expect him to get stunned/hurt/buzzed. I just dont think it will be enough to stop him (especially with how I feel about what Kelly's output will look like)...and I dont think he has a chance on the cards.

When did I mention that he has Bernard's defense? I dont remember saying anything even remotely like that. I said Williams own strengths will drop Pavlik's output and he will clearly outwork him (to be simple in the analysis) and win a wide UD.

People compare Williams to Hearns all too much...even tho the only things they are similar in in height (length), weight classes and skin color (not implying racism at all...just the things they are alike in). Hearns was a fantastic technical fighter, with phenominal power, but had one true weakness in the fact that he could be hurt. Williams is an extremely awkward fighter who throws a ridiculous amount of punches and swarms his opponents...but seemingly has a phenominal chin.

They are nothing alike.

 

I hope this fight happens. If Williams boxes smartly, he wins a UD.

 

Would love to see this fight. Dont care who wins as long as its a good fight i reckon though, that Paul Williams wins on points. Pavlik took along time to beat (in his tune up fight) Rubio so i dont see him really hurting Paul Williams that much. I also hope that Paul Williams tries his trademark uppercut.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CojLCBasvNU[/YT]

 

paul williams U.D.