Best contender that Larry Holmes didn't fight.

Coetzee KO'd the "near amatuer" LEON SPINKS in 1 RD, 4 fights before Larry Holmes gave Spinks a title shot

 

Bummy, are you another tounge sticking out type of poster? You seem above that. You know that Spinks regrouped after the Coetzee loss, trained a little, learned a little, had his second biggest ever win as a pro v.s. Mercado and still got destroyed by Holmes. All that still means little as Leon lacked long term desire and focus.

 

After Cobb and Rodriguez went the distance in getting shut out by Holmes, Larry committed himself to a diligent training regimen in high spirits, wanting to get Tim out of there. In less than two months, he trimmed down from 221 to 213. He fielded numerous admonitions against overtraining, and some odds makers believed this mistake in overpreparation could lay the foundation for an upset.

(Post fight reports covering Holmes-Cobb observed that, "Only the loose hanging flesh above the hips, an area which refuses to tighten, no matter how much conditioning is applied, offered physical evidence of Larry's advancing years." During the Witherspoon match, those same eyewitnesses expressed amazement that even the previously mentioned loose tissue had been somehow made tightened and toned.) Larry Holmes was certainly never a candidate to pose for the cover of a physique periodical, but Witherspoon was when his body looked best.

Larry came in at 219 pounds for Marvis Frazier, but he otherwise competed above 220 through the remainder of his career (up to 255 for his ten round decision over Beanfart).

 

Holmes was 1/2 pound heavier than he was 11 months earlier when he fought so well vs Cooney. Even in some wins he would say if he was in top shape he'd have killed them. Then he is seemingly in top shape but says he was overtrained. Holmes didn't have the rolls vs Cooney, yet did next two fights against Cobb and Rodriguez when he came in 5 and 8 1/2 pounds heavier. Cobb and Rodriguez didn't exactly present a Cooney like challenge. It's hard to be certain any which way.

 

No, that is not my intent. Spinks had a good win over Mercado and did win another 2 wins and a draw with Eddie Lopez. but he still got destroyed KD 3 times & KO'd in 1 rd by Coetzee 3 wins ago. Spinks had a lot of Out- of the ring action and trouble and most knew he did not have his head on right. I am not so impressed with Holmes rein, the amount of defences, YES but it was a weak era and a lot of Holmes defences were( spinks 10-2-2) 13-0 Ossie Ocasio, 10 fight Marvis Frazier, 14-1 James Smith, 14-0 David Bey( who won 4 fights of his next 16 fights ZANON,EVANGELISTA,Scott Frank,Lucien Rodreiguez, Scott Ledoux 26-8-4 and was suprised by the 19-8 Mike Weaver. Shavers and Cooney were his best wins but I feel although these fighters had strengths( power) they were both with many flaws and overated. Looking back I wonder how long these guys would have lasted with Vlad or Vitali or there current opponents, not too long I am afraid. I like Holmes and he was my FAV at the time but I can not forget the B.S. of the day and feel him and King navigated there way out of fighting the best of his time and unifying...I give credit to the Champs before him that did and the ones after him like Tyson (who tried) and the Klitscko's who are doing it. There is nothing personal and its just my opinion but I would do the same today with the Klitscko's if the pulled the same **** and these guys can hold on to a title and make plently of money just fighting in Germany, content. Larry Holmes did not do what Louis,Marciano,Ali did and that was fight the best of his day and alot of it was politics (WHICH WE STILL HAVE TODAY) but a lot of it was NAVIGATION

 

The term Bummy used was " never ." Going the distance and probably landing some decent shots along the way isn't exactly laying down either. Also after seeing Shavers completely destroy Norton in a single round after Holmes barely squeaked by him, would certainly be enough for most men to think twice about a second meeting...:good

 

No, this is my quote below...JT had it right.....I said he never rematched a TOUGH fight. The 1st Shavers fight was one-sided and looked like an easy rematch...see below

I will accept that to a degree (in -House politics) but Page, Coetzee, Thomas, were 3 others he could have made money with and would not fight. Holmes never rematched a tough fight ,NEVER......

 

It was still the same Shavers Holmes totally flogged tho, nothing had changed. Shavers had knocked people senseless before Holmes fought him initially, Holmes knew what The Acorn brought to the table.

Granted he was ever dangerous due to his horrific power, as Holmes found out.

 

Bummy: Solid points ...I think Norton to Cooney, Holmes prime was one reign and post Cooney was another without question ... I feel 82 - 83 he beats the rest but who knows ?

Dokes, Coetzee, Page , Witherspoon, Tubbs and Thomas did not establish themselves with consistency ...

Dokes got crushed by Coetzee, retained his title in a horrible decision over Weaver
Coetzee KO'ed by Weaver, lost to Tate, KO'ed by Page, fought to a standstill w Thomas
Thomas lost to Berbick who was beaten by Holmes.
Page lost to Berbick and Bey who both were defeated by Holmes.
Witherspoon was flattened by Smith who was beaten by Holmes .

My point again us that there was no outstanding fighter that could be a definative big money draw so Holmes cherry picked ... he still fought and defeated :

Bey who beat Page
Snipes who drew with Coetzee
Berbick who beat a them undefeated Page soundly and then Thomas.
Witherspoon
Bonecrusher who KO'ed Bruno, Witherspoon and Weaver
Williams

Not a total ducking by any means , throwing aside the easy Scott Frank and Marvis Frazier ...

 

Dates are important here and YOU LEFT then out in your examples

Pinklon Thomas Tko'd Quick Tillis in 1982 Thomas Drew with Coetzee in 1983 ( fair call)
Thomas Beat Witherspoon for title in 1984
Thomas KO'd Mike Weaver in 1985

14-1 Bonecrusher Lost in 1984 to Holmes after beating a very Green Bruno in 1984 then Smith went on to lose 4 of his next 5 fights one of those was to Witherspoon

Witherspoon lost to Holmes in 1983 but went on to beat Jumbo Cummings, James Broad,Tony Tubbs,James Smith , Frank Bruno, Witherspoon beat James Smith in 1985 and Holmes already lost the title to Michael Spinks in 1985. The only loss Witherspoon had at that time was a SD to Pinklon Thomas for the title in 1984 and it was not until 1986 that Smith beat Witherspoon and Holmes had already lost the title to Spinks in 1985


Thing is Witherspoon was not getting a rematch and Thomas was not getting a unification...Thomas went back into the Herion before the Berbick fight but that was in 1986, Holmes already lost the title to Spinks in 85

You are making it seem like Holmes beat all these guys right after there big wins but the fact is

Holmes beat Trevor Berbick in 1981 and Berbick did not beat Page until 1982 and he did not beat Thomas until 1986

I know it is confusing but Dates are important

In Retrospct as very weak era, Snipes by the way beat Coetzee but was down 2 times and everyone knew he lost except the judges.

 

Valid points and I knew this while writing it but my main point is that none of these guys stood out for an extended period as anything great. They either lost because of lack of ability or because of lack of condition ... Page, Witherspoon and Tubbs engaged in perhaps the ulgiest round robin of title bouts in alaphabet history ... terribly boring fights between obese excuses for fighters .. Thomas finally won a title and goes on to lose it to Berbick. Dokes was a drug addict and looked like crap in the Weaver rematch and then loses to Coetzee who did lose badly to both Tate and Weaver ... Weaver got stopped in one round by Dokes ...

My point is that all of the guys were undistinguished and there was zero public demand for any of the bouts ... Holmes was all about $ and he was going to make the easiest fights for the dollar post Cooney when he was feeling his oats ...

 

None of them were conditioned like Holmes, especially Witherspoon but a lot of People thought 15 fight Tim did enough to win and as he gained expericence he would have been a tougher fight. I think Dokes, Page, Thomas and possibly Coetzee would have beaten Cooney and Shavers but thats just my opinion. Holmes had a long run but not as impressive in content as lenth of time and I think he navigated himself well around the landmines that would have troubled his style. Louis, Marciano and Ali and Tyson and Holyfield fought the # 1 contenders....Holmes was a bit more guided and protected. I think he would have been shown greater had he beaten all comers or perhaps had he lost he would have few more losses. Thats my opinion but I do love a Champ that fights the best or a contender that takes a chance to get to the title.