Muhammad Ali " Jack Dempsey Is A Joke " ?

I don't think that was offensive, it's his opinion. I think he was obviously trying to make some counter points against Nat Fleischer who wouldn't even rank him and had Jack Dempsey #1 all-time... Speed and power I don't know, but in every other aspect Ali's got Dempsey's number.

 

I agree that Ali was unfair with Dempsey. Dissing a retired fighters is never nice atsch

However, it is worth noting that it Ali is not lying when he says that he could defeat Dempsey. Ali was a *****, but he was an honest ***** :yep

Sure the Klitschkos could trash talk former fighters, but who would take them seriously?. Ali could talk the talk, because he could walk the walk.

 

On paper. the Ali v Frazier bouts were mismatches too. Ali held nearly every conceivable advantage, yet all three fights were close and Frazier won one convincingly.

Great fighters are worth more than the sum of their parts.

 

So its ok for Classic Posters to analyse past fighters but not the HW GOAT?

 

Ali would stop Dempsey after outboxing him in every round. In CLAY'S era I see Dempsey being no better than a Cleveland Williams.

GREAT for his time; Boxing advanced quite a bit in those few decades IMO

 

Ali has made similar disrespectful claims about Joe Louis and other champs who he describes as crude and limited. But, in all reality I do think that Ali would beat Dempsey convincingly. He had everything from size, speed, chin, and overall ring generalship over Dempsey. His chin was well tested against the likes of Foreman, Frazier, Shavers and Liston.. His ability to deal with high pressure swarmers with a great work rate was confirmed against Joe Frazier. His stamina over 15 rounds was proven on a multitude of occasions and his comp was infinately better.

 

Cleveland Williams was dead in the water, Dempsey was a live-wire and would be all over that version of Ali. To be honest, that version of Ali might be more vulnerable than later versions as I feel he was open to taking a big shot to the head. With Dempsey in the ring, this would mean a knockdown or being stunned, which could lead to a stoppage. But to get there, Dempsey takes a lot of punches coming in.

Prime Ali probably outboxes and possibly stops Dempsey. FotC Ali loses IMO. Frazier beat him, I think Dempsey does as well. Dempsey isn't quite as ferocious a pressure fighter as Frazier, but he's a superior puncher and more clinical in that regard. He also has better two-fisted power and superior handspeed, not to mention vastly superior footwork and being a much greater athlete. Could be very interesting.

 

I'm not saying AT ALL that they have similar styles.

I will ALSO CONCEDE that Williams was way past prime by then and probably not that great during his prime.

It was a bad comparison.

But in terms of what he was and what I have seen him do I think Dempsey, ALTHOUGH A PIONEER (so don't think I'm a hater) was wel behind. His toughness and two-fisted assault would get him some places; but into a competitive fight with THE GOAT??!?!? No. Not IN MY OPINION.

 

I think it was a re-action to the fact that so many people say he would lose to x and y, without actually having seen those. He was only stating his opinion which he has a right to.

 

People tend to deify Ali unlike any other fighter. I am not saying he was not a great, great HW (I have him at #2) but pretty close to his prime he was quite beatable. Little Joe Frazier swarmed much like Little Jack Dempsey and landed the left hook with impunity. The very best version of Dempsey could hope to do something similar.

I know some will contend Ali was better in 65-67 but there is no way of knowing this because, with perhaps only the exception of Patterson, he fought absolute scrubs. Terrell never proved anything, Williams was absolutely shot (literally) and not that good to begin with, Foley wasn't far behind Williams in that department, London, Cooper and Midlin'burger were journeyman fighters on their best days.

I say Jack- on his best day- has a 30% chance of scoring the upset here.

 

'Little Joe Frazier' had 20-30lbs on Dempsey, fought with a different style, with a guard and systematically broke his man down by applying pressure.

Ali had weaker comp in the 60s but his 60s competition is still far better than Dempseys competition

Ali may underrated Dempsey or overstate his flaws, but he does have flaws that would get exposed, however he looks worse against Willard than at his absolute best

 

happy:good

 

I agree completely.

Yet I do appreciate guys upsetting the applecart from time to time. The rule is that all past champs are unbeatable compared to a current champ. Gets tiresome.

Ali was the exception that proved the rule, however.

 

On the campus tour in 1970 Ali thought Frazier was a joke, but when he was out on his feet in the 11th round, and his butt was on the canvas in the 15th round in the FOTC...he found the joke was on himself.

 

The way Gene Tunney handled Dempsey makes me believe Ali would do so as well.