Joe Frazier (1971) V Muhammad Ali (1967)

Ali's stamina will be so much better here and his speed will be too, I feel he punched himself out in 71 going for the KO, he had seen Frazier hurt early and thought he'd get him out of there. I see him winning this quite wide, taking all the early rounds upto say the 6th and being able to still move and keep his workrate into the late rounds where Frazier gave him a bit of a beating.

Ali 10-5

 

Cooper caught him with a great hook plain and simple. Ali didn't take punches as well in his first few comeback fights. But once he got acclimated to taking punches, he was able to take more.

10-5 really isn't that generous, you can make a case for giving some swing rounds to Joe.

See first response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v631ygmhI0g

Ali dwarfs Liston? I think not.

 

Okay, so then the 71 fight is out. We can't use this is proof that Ali of 67 can't take punches the way he did in 71. So you're dropping that attribute of FOTC Ali when talking about a prime Ali?

I feel it is.



See first response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v631ygmhI0g

For such the imposing figure Liston was he really does.

 

No. The fact that he beat Ali by such a sizeable margin suggests that Ali would squeak by in a prime for prime sense. I pick Joe UD.

The fight really wasn't close. 11 and 15 were 10-8 rounds on a 10 point must system. That's a 4 or 5 margin right there.

Watch the ****ing video I posted. It shows that Ali doesn't dwarf Liston.

 

It's decisive, not sizeable. Especially considering the KO clinches it. Without that it's Frazier close win. Now imagine a prime Ali, doing better and not getting dropped. Ali would most likely win.

But it wasn't on a 10 point system, right? And I don't think you have to score 11 a 10-8 round. Didn't Ali come on early well in that round?

Ali makes Liston look like a much smaller guy. Everyone thought Liston was this big strong guy. Ali just towers over him. Cursing doesn't change that.

 

No. frazier won by a good four or five rounds. A sizeable margin.

Ali was arguably KD (The timekeeper even started counting) and hurt badly in that round but it was ruled a slip. Frazier domianted Ali the whole round.

The video disporves your statement.

 

3 rounds for me. That knockdown gives him 2 points. If Ali won the round that's a 3 point potential swing.

I actually thought it was a legit knockdown.

No, it doesn't. You're telling me Ali doesn't look like he's towering the supposedly big bad Liston? Did you see the weigh in with Ali vs Liston I. Ali standing real tough with Liston with 100 towels. Liston just towers this supposedly immense man. If you've seen Ali Dozen you know the shot I refer to.

 

3 rounds is fine but no closer than that. I think with the 11th and 15th round, it's easily a 4 or 5 round victory for Joe.

Same here, we can actually agree on something.

Whatever it's beside the point. I was wrong. Happy?