Middleweight Tournament First Pick Walker vs Valdez

Come on, Sharkey wasn't the most consistent nor talented heavyweight...

... I don't consider the heavyweights of that era, the white ones at least, very good historically. Pretty sub-par to what you'd expect, infact. I wouldn't put it past Valdez to beat Sharkey.

 

I like Walker in this one.

 

Valdez never beat a great fighter, and only one very good one.
Walker beat at least 5 .
Sharkey wasnt consistent, but he was very talented,do you see him losing twice by U DEC to Hugo Corro?

 

You can't use that. Walker lost to a couple of fighters who I'd pick Valdez to smash.

Walker was a pound-for-pound great, no question, I just don't think he matches up well with Valdez. I could imagine Bennie Briscoe, in Walker's era, competing quite well against the higher weight classes - but then Valdez knocked him out. Boxing is never lineal and straightforward.

 

Can't use it? I did, you might not think its valid ,but thats a horse of another colour.
Boxing is often not straightforward due to the human factor ,but I submit it is allmost allways lineal.
If Briscoe had met the likes of Berlenbach , Lomski ,Maloney, he would have gone bye byes.imo.Briscoe was whipped by Griffith and Rodriguez, tough man very good fighter but NOT a great one.
Whether Waker matches up well against Valdez is subjective,certainly I dont think he looks great against him ,but as he handled strong heavies like Risko and Uzcudun ,I think he could match Valdez for strength.

 

I would favour Valdez I don't think trying to outfight is a strategy that would win. Although you never know Walker beat a who's who at pretty much every weight.

 

valdez is getting underrated here. the guy was a combination machine with a very crisp, clean punching style, an awesome right hand, and loads of durability. very few, if any, middles could come to valdez and win fighting inside. valdez UD.

 

But it's not about strength, is it? It's about Valdez' overall punching ability which was nothing short of excellent.

Fighters to beat Valdez? Look for Joey Giardello, Roy Jones or Ray Robinson.

Old timers, I'm talking mid '30s and back, seem to get put on a pedestal because they beat fighters bigger than them. There must be some explanation for why they did, because it doesn't happen as often now, not middleweights beating cruiserweights anyway, and especially not when they used to be welterweights.

Dick Tiger. Reckon he'd do well against Jack Sharkey? I do. He didn't prove he could, but I think he could. Same with Briscoe.

Mickey Walker is undoubtedly more tested than Valdez, but he wouldn't win.

 

Valdes was an excellent fighter, very good ability and power but not in the elite. Walker was great I see him wearing Valdes down over the course of the fight and Walkers body shots taking effect. I like Walker by a UD or a late stop RSF

 

Walker said he found meeting heavyweights easier ,because they were slower,obviously he came unstuck against Schmeling,but on the whole did very well.
I think this fight would be close enough ,not to be too dogmatic about it.
Rather like the Leonard Hagler fight
Valdez overall punching ability? He stopped Briscoe once in three fights ,by a tko, he stopped Tonna, who else worth talking bout?
Walker conceded 12 1/2lbs to Berlenbach 's 195 and dropped him twice for an easy dec.Berlenbach had 35 kos in 42 wins.
Tiger? His achilles heel was fast boxers with good legs ,he does not beat Sharkey.Briscoe neither.
Walker walked through the punches of hard hitting light heavies like Lomski and Berlenbach why wouldnt he do the same to Valdez, who has only one real top stoppage on his record?
Middles who beat Valdez?
The usual suspects,
Hagler,Lamotta,Griffith,Tiger,Giardello,Hopkins,Greb,Ketchel.
Maybe Fullmer,Papke.Certainly SRR.Toney ,Jones
Valdez, very good, but great?????
Mike Gibbons ,and Luis Rodriguez , have a good shot at a dec too.
No real argument as its too close to get uptight about ,Im sure there will be more outlandish predictions along the way.IE Al Hostak kos Jake Lamotta,Freddie Steele stops Hagler.

 

Classic example of old time bias. Not even worth arguing with you - any level headed poster, and I don't mean Janitor, would disagree with you.

 

You can argue about the men I chose to defeat Valdez ,but not about his stoppage wins .You talked about his power ,apart from Briscoe one out of three who did he stop?
Ps My top 4 160 pounders have 2 fighters who were active in the last 35 years.Bias ? I dont think so.

 

Who did John Mugabi knock out? Eugene Hart? Don't start that argument with me. You should try observing for once, instead of trawling through records. Because you can actually see Mugabi had more power than say, Gene Fullmer, even though Fullmer knocked out some quality fighters.

Nobody else ever stopped Briscoe. It's like Ray Robinson burying Fullmer.

Only because you have no bloody choice

Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon I presume? You couldn't possibly argue in anyone else without being ridiculed.

 

Dont start that argument with me
What are you going to do?
Look, I am the man who told John Mugabi to" ****ing sit down", because he was blocking my view of a fight,a tyro amateur like you holds no fears for me.:bbb
Of course I didn't know it was Mugabi ,although the white suit and stetson might have tipped me off he was a fighter.
"Try observing for once"
Ive been observing fights both on film[ 8mm],video, dvd, tv, and going to fights ,since the late 60's or, to put it another way, many years before you were pupped.
The trouble with you is, if it didnt happen in the last 3 decades, it isnt relevant.
Hagler and Monzon? Certainly not ! Hugo Corro and Vito Antuofermo.:good
Speaking of observation____________________
Rewatched Valdez blasting Briscoe out with that ferocious right hand today .Awesome shot.
Now get the **** out of my keep net! :hi: