Prime for Prime, Who Wins @ 168, James Toney vs Joe Calzaghe?

toney UD

 

its a 70/30 fight in favour of Toney

30 % to Calzaghe because he is an excelelnt fighter, but Toney was P4Pmaterial for 5 years, people forget that. Joe was a P4P fighter in a weaker era for 2-3 YEARS

 

Lets forget that Toney consistently lost to fighters that were lesser than Calzaghe throughout his P4P period, had draws, very controversial victories and was never dominant against champs/former champs.

 

Calzaghe would win in my opinion, i just think that the kryptonite for Toney was always top class mobility and footwork, Calzaghe has it and is also more versatile. But i do think the possibility of Toney winning by right hand ko is very real, more likely is a knockdown that Calzaghe gets up from and then adapts though.

 

james toney ability to slip punches and devestaing k.o. counterpunching power would collapse this joker.

 

It's fantastic to see Toney winning this poll. I felt sure Calzaghe would win it, seeing as he is widely and horribly overrated on this site. This poll is a victory for anyone who believes that "workrate" is not the be all and end all. Yes, Calzaghe would throw hundreds of punches a round if you let him, yes he threw blizzards of punches at Lacy and Manfredo because he could, but mere workrate does not make you an elite practitioner of the sweet science. Against a peak James Toney (whose footwork, speed and activity are all underrated because he is a fat behemoth nowadays), Calzaghe's amateurish defence and stationary head would be the dream combination. If Calzaghe fights on the outside, Toney slips his jabs and expertly lines up his own shots. If Calzaghe tries to come inside and flurry, he gets his jaw shattered. Calzaghe would have even less chance of landing cleanly and consistently on a peak Toney than he did on a well past-prime Hopkins, and a far higher chance of being caught and stopped. Toney hits harder than a 43-year-old Hop or a 40-year-old Jones, and is a far more lethal finisher, but is just as accurate and crafty. Toney all the way in this one. Two different skill levels on show here. The artisan vs the artist. Well done ESB!

 

If Toney is indeed on a higher skill level, as you say, and Toney's been defeated or struggled with fighters worse than his own level, does this not all but assure a Calzaghe victory?

 

Whilst charging in straight on doing the doggy paddle would be foolish for Calzaghe, I don't know why you keep repeating this. A 43 year old Hopkins has a better defense than Toney ever had, plus he's noticabley more crafty.

 

People throw around the term ATG too liberally when it comes to Toney. Is he a first ballot Hall Of Famer? Absolutely. But his resume just does not stack up to Hopkins or even Roy Jones. The guy only won the IBF trinket in 3 Divisions. His Heavyweight career has been laughable as his best win is probably Guinn or Oquendo maybe old Holyfield.

Being a 3 Division IBF champion does not make an ATG I am sorry he was a very good fighter and certain HOFer but no ATG.

 

Toney is far the superior fighter in all departments. I honestly don't think JC would of beaten a prime McCallum let alone a prime Toney.

 

Agree about McCallum, Slappy ultimate nightmare.

Prime Toney, Jones, Hopkins all would easily beat the slappy one which is why he waited, and waited before he fought Hopkins and Jones. Luckily for Slappy Toney was at HW at that stage :yep

 

If Calzaghe went to an SD with the mighty Robin Reid, does this not all but assure a Toney domination?

 

His career has been up and down, inconsistent. But his best wins are excellent, and his achievements (perhaps not in terms of alphabelts won) are formidable. I wouldn't argue with you over his ATG status, I can certainly see why someone would not think he quite earned the title of all-time great, but I agree with you that he must be a first-ballot HOF lock.

 

A 43-year-old Hopkins did not possess a greater defence than a peak James Toney. The past-prime version of Hopkins is more passive and stationary than the peak version of Hopkins. Between peak Hopkins and peak Toney, you can argue persuasively either way over who has the better defence, but peak Toney was a better defensive fighter than the 43-year-old Hopkins.

 

Your idea of a peak James Toney is entirely laughable - a peak James Toney relied on being the more physical boxer who could power punch and snake counters, his defensive wiles didn't come into play until he moved up the weight classes, it was a protective measure.

Judging Toney at his absolute peak, I doubt he'd even beat the version of Calzaghe that just slammed Jones Jr, let alone the true peak of Calzaghe when he was throwing straighter and heavier than most at SMW.