If Hopkins challenged and fought Calzaghe at 168 in 2002, but in US...

true but Joe was also faster back then but Hopkins was never extreamly fast nor was he slow by any means this is why these 2 are 2 of my All tiem Fave's but i will have to always go with JC.

heres a link to a thread of mine that gives more detail

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51944

 

They were both much different fighters then, maybe nard would have been able to follow up with a hook if the right missed, that is what is so frustrating about these hypothetical matchups, cuz you just really never know

 

Uh in this particular type of fight it is, Dad

 

I think that it would be a close fight between the two at any point. I just believe Joe is one of the few fighters in that weight region who has the style and physical attributes to befuddle and bother Hopkins. Hopkins had the advantage in ring intelligence over just about everyone he ever fought. The only time I have ever seen Hopkins get outfoxed in the ring is against Calzaghe which to me does not bode well for Bernard against any version of Joe, because Bernard's greatest advantage to me was his discipline and being smarter smarter than the other guy in there

 

I agree with you, but it is much easier to befuddle someone who is older, and slower with less stamina, that is the point im trying to get at, if they were both physically even, would he be able to do it....no way to know

 

Hopkins camp made a verbal agreement to fight Calzaghe in 2002. The fight was to be in the US. Hopkins subsequently demanded more than he'd already agreed to, thereby scuttling the fight.

However, had he not gotten greedy, I believe he would still have lost.

The Calzaghe he eventually did face in 2008 had declined by more than Bernard had.

As has been pointed out, Bernard was probably a slyer, craftier customer in 2008 than he had been in 2002.

Calzaghe had more punching power in 2002 as his hand problems weren't quite so bad then.


In 2008, Bernard had been at 175 for nearly two years and had adjusted to that weight. Joe was in his first fight at that weight.


In 2002, Bernard was a 160 lb fighter, and would have been ad******g to his newly increased weight of 168. Calzaghe would be in his comfort zone.


Joe took four rounds to make the adjustments and befuddle and outsmart Bernard. After that, Bernard won no further rounds and needed all his skill and fakery to make it to the final bell.

Some attributed some of Joe's victory to Bernard's age.

However, six months later, he fought Pavlik and pace was never an issue for him. This showed that his success or failure was more to do with who he was fighting, than his age.


Joe's fighting style overwhelmed him, not age.

If it were merely age, he would have had trouble with the even younger Pavlik.


(BTW, I predicted that Bernard would beat Tito, Tarver and Pavlik. And that he would lose to Calzaghe.)


I believe, if anything, Bernard would have been beaten worse in 2002.

 

The Pavlik fight wasnt a fast paced fight, it was just bernard throwing and pavlik not throwing back. If you are seriously saying that Bernard is better now than he was in 2002, you are just wrong plain as day

 

The putting-him-on-his-ass business has been blown out of proportion as to its real significance.

This was a flash KD that was finished off with a push, a balance issue more than anything else.

I scored the round 10-8 for Hopkins on general principle.

But Joe won the first two minutes of the round and the last 45 seconds as well.

He was up at three, and was the aggressor for the rest of the round. In fact, Bernard failed to even throw a single shot, much less land one, in the 40 seconds following the KD.

Does that indicate that he hurt Calzaghe ?

 

Imo. Calzaghe 2006 was better than the 2002 version because he was thinking more and being less impulsive. In 2002 he could still be drawn into a dogfight.

However, Hopkins was if not better then almost the same in 2006 as he was in 2002. He is unique physically and he got smarter and was thinking boxing smarter in 2006.

I believe Joe would have won a close fight in 2002 (or perhaps a draw), and won a wider fight in 2006. Still if the fight was in the US, Hopkins may have gotten one or two judges in the same way a single blind judge judged their actual fight.

Best Joe 2006 vs best Hopkins (somewhere between 2002-2008 on and off), Joe wins. After 2005, Joe beats any version of Hopkins. Earlier versions of Joe may loose. For sure Hopkins is somewhat better than Reid and if Joe had fought Hopkins instead of Reid that night, I believe Bernard would have won.

 

Why do you think the fight played out that way ?

Because he was fighting Pavlik, who wasn't in Calzaghe's general league.

Calzaghe SET the pace. Pavlik, despite his usual very high work rate, was unable to do so.


Many, especially Hopkins' fans, expected the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight to be close.

Not very many, including Hopkins' fans, expected him to have much chance against Pavlik.

Your dismissal of Hopkins' performance as "...just bernard throwing and pavlik not throwing back..." fails to account for WHY that was the case.

The answer: Calzaghe was a far different proposition than Pavlik.

Nowhere did I say that.

What I did say was that Calzaghe's physical game, especially his hands, had declined as well.

Perhaps as much or more than Hopkins.

 

No he wasn't, it's just that his physical skill eroded in 2005. In 2002 Hopkins still had the speed, stamina, to keep up with any version of Calzaghe. Hopkins in his prime was just as smart as he is now. A 2002 Hopkins would be much more busier, more sharper, and be able to counter more. Hopkins was past his prime in 2004.

 

I'd say Hopkins beats Calzaghe pretty clearly prime for prime. Hopkins still had the great defense back in the day, but also was much more active on offense, which was pretty much the difference in the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight of 2008. Calzaghe didn't land much of meaning against B-Hop but Hopkins didn't throw enough to win rounds against Calzaghe, even when Calzaghe got off to a very tentative start by his standards. The Hopkins of old would throw a lot more. Calzaghe was also faster back then, but Hopkins is a master counter-puncher so I don't think that would have mattered much. Hopkins would win by a clear UD.

 

Calzaghe. IF, if and if!

 

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cant be arsed writing today.