YOU choose when you think they were at their best. 15 rounds, who takes it? I say Holmes late, late stoppage.
In another thread talking about how Holmes would beat Louis, you said: Jab, okay, but size? Holmes was only slightly bigger. In his prime he was weighing between 210 and 215lbs at 6ft 3in. Louis was just under 6ft 2in and weighed 206 and 207 in 1942 (two fights that year, and two of Louis' best performances against two 250lbs+ opponents).
My mistake, I thought Louis was 6'1 and Holmes was 6'4! I've added/subtracted and inch there. Still, I feel Holmes was more multi-faceted; I feel he can withstand Louis' bombs and that Louis level of challengers weren't up to the skill/ability of Holmes. I feel that if you went back in a time machine and got the Louis of the 2nd Schmeling fight he would drop Holmes early; I just don't doubt Holmes' ability to come back and show Louis things he's never seen. Holmes adaptability is fantastic IMO. Louis has one gear; he's one of the BEST OF ALL TIME in that gear, but I don't feel it would be enough to beat Holmse. If anyone has proof to the contrary; as always, I am willing to listen.
I'm not sure about the skill levels being much different. Holmes' opponents were stronger, I'd say, and perhaps a tiny bit more durable, in general. Louis was obviously in a class of his own until more of the good black fighters became prominent and I genuinely think he was bored half the time, which might be able to account for some his more lacklustre performances. I don't, however, agree with Louis having one gear. When he felt the need, he could blast someone out straight away, and it was nothing to do with a bit of luck helping him land punches early; you can see the change in his intensity between, say, the Conn or Farr fights to the Schmeling and B. Baer rematches.
That's fair enough, 'gear' was the wrong word; I mean 'style' I guess. He was a short punching banger, I just feel Holmes proved himself against punchers, and that Louis never faced anyone as well-rounded as Holmes. as I say I think it's a good discussion, I'm well open to debate on this, as I am with most things (except Floyd vs Arguello at 130 :good)
I guess I'm 'underrating' Louis' ability, I don't want people to think that I perceive him as a 'slugger', his technique was beautiful. EDIT: as beautiful as damaging someone can be :good
"The Homer" would paste and school a slower and smaller Louis overall.............. Louis never fought a dude as big and as skilled / smooth as Holmes........ Holmes all the way...... MR.BILL
Holmes would easily find Louis with his jab and dominate the fight with the jab, faster hands and movement. Wide UD for Holmes
This thread was done back in December of 2007, and so I went back and dug up my old post on the topic.. Here it is. Mr. Magoo, December, 2007 wrote: At one point, I would have readily gone with Holmes, but after watching numerous fights and clips of joe Louis, I'm beginning to reconsider. Louis in all honesty looked a lot more impressive than Holmes did, and was one of the most decisive winning champions that the division has ever seen. He was probably about as impressive of a finisher or more so than Mike Tyson was even during Mike's best years. The way Louis demolished giant heavyweights like Baer, Carnera and Simon was truly incredible. I'm also not so sure that if I were his trainer that I'd bulk him up for fighting modern heavyweights. In fact, I think Louis was fine at the weight he was. If you look at him in fights or in training sessions, Joe was incredibly well conditioned and not carrying a single unneeded pound on him. His combinations were brutal, and he defeated many different profiles of boxers and punchers over the years. I have never seen a better well developed puncher anywhere on film from a technical standpoint. I have little or no doubt that if a prime Louis had fought Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano that he'd eventually prevail. The fact that he was still competitive against those guys at the end of his career leaves me with this indication. Holmes was truly one of my favorite heavyweight champions, but I can't ignore the fact that he was vulnerable at times. Personally, I think that if Larry knew he was fighting Joe Louis and not Renaldo Snipes, his attitude and mentality would be different going into such a bout. nevertheless, it would still be a very dangerous fight even on Holmes' best evening. I think its possible that Larry could have won a decision, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Anyone who thinks that Holmes would just move from side to side and stick Louis with the jab all night is sadly mistaken. If Holmes did not show up to give his absolute best performance and got sloppy for even an instant, Louis would be there to collect his head, and that's the truth.
If Holmses only plan was to try to control Louis with the jab then he might as well conceed the fight before the opening bell. Its not that Holmes couldn't win but he sure as hell couldnt win like that. This is not some one dimensional fighter he is up against.
Holmes would win based on his potent left jab and damn good leg movement...... Holmes could circle the ring in his prime with grace..... Plus, at 6' 3" tall and 212 pounds, Holmes would be like a nightmare for Joe Louis, who's greatest title challenger was the 6' 0" tall and 195 pound Joe Walcott........... And Larry Holmes had a way better chin in his prime than Walcott ever had............ Cheers...... MR.BILL:goodbbb