Post 60's Flyweight(112lbs only) top 10 - first draft.

The records are the actual records at the flyweight class(112lbs only!)

1.Miguel Canto 59(14KO)-7-4 : 14 WBC defenses from 1975 to 1979. Not a strong puncher, but a whole lot of stamina going the distance(15 rounds) 13 times out of 14 in his title defenses.
Notable Wins: Shoji Oguma[thrice](21-2-0), Martin Vargas[twice](41-2-3), Ignacio Espinal[twice](23-3-4)

2.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam 52(25KO)-1-1 : 17 defenses from 2001-2007, and both his loss and draw came to Daisuke Naito(which he beat twice before that).
Notable Wins: Daisuke Naito[four times 2-1-1](19-0-2), Hussein Hussein(23-0), Monelisi Mhikiza Myekeni(21-2-0)



3.Horacio Accavallo 66(29KO)-0-5 : He may not have a strong presence in terms of titles(3 title defenses then retired due to an out of ring accident). A very aggresive, ''in your face fighter''. He spent the majority of his time in Argentina, but that did not stop him from having fights with the very best.
Notable Wins: Carlos Miranda(38-2-5), Demetrio Carbajal[thrice](36-3-8 , Carlos Omar Rodriguez(21-0-4), Hiroyuki Ebihara[twice](52-2-1), Efren Torres(37-3-1), Katsuyoshi Takayama(32-1-3)

4.Pone Kingpetch 26(8KO)-6 : The first one to convincly stop Flyweight legend Pascual Perez and avenged his defeats to Fighting Harada and Hiroyuki Ebihara. Perhaps a longer career would have helped him become the greatest, but the first ever Thai champion still has a nice resume, especially in rematchs.
Notable Winsascual Perez[twice](54-1-1), Fighting Harada(26-1-0), Hiroyuki Ebihara(38-1-1)

5.Masao Ohba 22(11KO)-2-1 : Two losses to journeymans early in his career are the only thing that tarnish his career. WBA flyweight champ from 1970 to 1973, defending the titles 5 times(and a couple of non-official fights in between). Unfortuntitly, Obha died 3 weeks after his last fight in an accident, preventing him from reaching the no.1 spot.
Notable Wins: Chartchai Chionoi(57-14-3), Orlando Amores(27-1)

6.Santos Benigno Laciar 36(11KO)-5-6 : 2 time Flyweight champ, 9 defenses, and insanely fast hands, and don't get fooled by his 5 early defeats in his career, he vacated his title after a dominant reign.
Notable Wins: Betulio Gonzalez(74-9-3), Hilario Zapata(26-4-0) Hi-Sup Shin(26-1-1)

7.Sot Chitalada 21(12KO)-3-1 : 9 defenses, losing the title once to Yong Kang Kim which he beat in a rematch to get his belt back. A very nice resume however, compared to many other flyweights. Unfortunately, 2 bad defeats at the end of his career made it drop the gloves for good. Notable Wins: Gabriel Bernal [twice](38-9-2), Freddy Castillo (45-17-5), Yong Kang Kim (19-0-0), Jung-Koo Chang (38-2-0)

8.Yuri Arbachakov 16(10KO)-1 : He retired after his first loss(to sasakul, which he had beaten in the past). The first ever Russian champ had a hell of a right cross, and was a very good by the book boxer. Like too many other flyweights, his resume lacks unification and big fights.
Notable Wins:Chatchain Sasakul(20-0),

9.Mark Johnson 23(17KO)-0 : Champion from 1996 to 1998 with 7 defenses. He will probably be more remembered for his 2 defeats to Rafael Marquez, but he was undefeated in his flyweight days. His resume however, is fairly weak and no unification sure dosen't help.
Notable Wins:Alejandro Felix Montiel(33-2-0), Cecilio Espino(34-5-1)

10.Omar Andrés Narváez 24(14KO)-0-1 : The Argentian version of Joe Calzaghe(defending countless times his WBO belt in his homeland), the undefeated argentinian has a good record, but lacks unification and his resume is weak. Hopefully he will start unifying soon if he wants a better legacy in the flyweight class.
Notable Wins: Brahim Asloum(20-1), Alexander Mahmutov(42-6-0)

Iv always had a big decision to make between canto and Wonjongkam. I will check out some fight clip and maybe switch some names around. Also remember, no Carbajal/Lopez because its 112lbs only... Last thing is im not too sure about Mark Johnson... might have to take him out cause i mean he's just a paper titlist when i look at it.

 

Wonjongkam is way too high. I'm not even sure he cracks my top 10, and you're talking about possibly placing him ahead of Canto? That's crazy talk right there. How the hell do you rate him so highly while downgrading someone like Johnson's achievements?

 

Here is my head to head list:



Fighting Harada
Miguel Canto
Hiroyuki Ebihara
Horacio Accavallo
Masao Ohba
Mark Johnson
Yuri Arbachakov
Shoji Oguma
Fidel Bassa
Santos Laciar
Betulio Gonzalez
Chan Hee Park
Salvatore Burruni
Hilario Zapata
Luis Ibarra
Guty Espadas
Pone Kingpetch
Chartchai Chionoi
Effren Torres
Walter McGowan
Juan Herrera
Chatchai Sasakul
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Martin Vargas


I'd like to put Venice Borkhorsor in there somewhere but I've never seen him at the weight. Must have been something to beat Betulio Gonzalez as he did but I wouldn't know.


I haven't done one in terms of accomplishments but if I did, Canto would be at the top without doubt, and the top 5 would probably include Ebihara, Accavallo, Oguma and Gonzalez.


Maybe you could put Harada in there for what should be 2 wins against Kinpetch and a 6 rounder decision against Ebihara, but Ebihara did more at the weight imo (including also deserving 2 wins against Kingpetch).

 

How the HELL is Narvaez in there??????

 

Didnt you just say yesterday that Arbachakov is "perhaps" in your top 50 flyweights alltime?

Now he makes your top 10 flyweights of the last 50 years. :think

 

No Koki Kameda either, shameful

 

SS

Harada as top that is interesting, Im not an expert on Flyweights but watching him i think Canto would beat him.

Also you rank Bassa highly. I like Bassa as a stylist and a boxer but his chin is very suspect.

 

Harada is stylistic kryptonite for Canto. To be honest I wouldn't rate Canto as highly head t head as even SS does. He had arguably the best overall career of any Flyweight, which is remarkable given his lack of size and power. However, those lacking physical qualities would play to his disadvantage against most of the bigger, longer Fly's. Even a guy like Zapata I can't see Canto beating simply due to the difference in physical assets. A far more dedicated, consistent performer, but how is a 5'0 pure boxer going to beat a 5'6 one with such distinct physical advantages?

 

I dont think so, Canto was a good tidy boxer used a good defence with lateral movement. Harada was a swarmer from what i have seen, he threw wide shots and lots of them.

I know Harada was weight drained but Rose dominted Harada with lateral movement which Canto was good at. Also Jofre won rounds vs Harada with tidy shots up the middle and again movement. I just think Canto was a better mover than these guys and could confuse Harada with movement and land his tidy shots up the middle.

Good point with Zapata maybe Canto wouldnt beat Zapata but i really aint seen any of Zapata except a few tribute videos so i cant comment. But a tall 5'6 Flyweight could struggle in the pocket with Canto who did fight good up close also.

 

A swarmer, also known as the stylistic kryptonite for pure boxers, particularly ones with no power. Harada was also an excellent boxer when he decided to switch up tactics, as he proved by out-boxing Harada for portions of their bouts using the jab and lateral movement. I just don't see how a midget Flyweight with no power is going to beat a fast, swarming boxer-puncher in the mold of Harada. Canto was just too lacking physically. He'd last the distance with his skills and experience, but how is he going to stave Harada off and take a decision on points?

Yes, he was badly weight-drained, not to mention that fight was at Bantamweight and against a much taller, harder hitting fighter than Canto. The two are hardly comparable in any way outside of the fact that they're pure boxers, just as the Harada who blitzed his way through Flyweight is hardly comparable to the weight drained Bantamweight version that faced Rose.

He's having close struggles with limited plodders like Betulio Gonzalez, but he's going to handle a much faster, more varied assault from the versatile whirl-wind Harada? I don't see it, under any circumstances.

Perhaps, but Zapata had a lot of skills in the pocket as well. He was just as wiry and elusive there as anywhere else. How is Canto going to make his way in is my question?

I appreciate you putting up a debate and sticking to your guns, though.:good

 

I'm going to take on some of your own points here regarding Pryor vs Whittaker.

Power is not that important in boxing speed is very important. I think Canto' movement can off set Haradas advances and make angles for counters. Canto has proven his stamina and could do this for 15 rounds. There will be moments when Harada catches up with Canto but he can use his experiance and skills to ride it out. Harada does bring the speed of his attacks into question as they were feriocusly fast so i can see your points.

The bit in bold im taking you mean he outboxed Jofre with his jab and movement. I think this is irrelevant as i dont see Harada outboxing Canto his best chance is to swarm him as you say its the kryptonite of the pure boxer.

You could be right about Canto lacking physically as Harada was very strong and relentless so it could take its wear on canto.

I know it was at Bantam weight but Roses movement is something Harada struggled with, without the added power and reach. He just didnt quite kno where Rose was or going. However you do make a point saying he wasnt the same fighter i half agree he obviously wasnt as good but Rose played his part too.

I have the 3rd fight and i thought Canto won it quite clearly but Gonzalez did pose a few problems. like you say

I'd have to watch some more Zapata to answer this.

thank you, i know i dont know enough about the lower weights but im learning.

 

Good stuff GPater. I'd continue but I'm a bit too impressed by your willingness to trade blow for blow. This is a first for you I think, at least with me. You're growin up my man.

 

thanks, im just abit more knowledgeable

wait i actually shut Pea up :good

 

Oh is that how it is?!

In regards to the Pryor/Whitaker comparison, Whitaker wouldn't have been at a size disadvantage against Pryor like Canto would be against Chang. Also, as skilled as he was at his craft, Canto lacked the versatility of Whitaker. He was for the most part a pure boxer/mover, whereas Whitaker was more comfortable in the pocket and at close range. Canto would be relying purely on boxing on the move against a bigger, stronger, equally fast swarmer. I just don't think he had the physical capabilities of dealing with Harada the way Whitaker could Pryor (IMO), nor the overall tools.

I only slightly favor Pea over The Hawk as is. A smaller, less versatile fighter with even less pop isn't going to fare as well. As I said though, I do see Canto lasting the distance and putting up a respectable account of himself.

 

fair enough, Canto wasnt that versatile although i disagree he was mostly a pure boxer/'mover he did sometimes hang on the inside and fight in the pocket just not as much as Whittaker and it aint going to do nothing for him in this fight.