How vulnerable would larry holmes been to that double lead right hand Ali showcased?

Good observation, and it might very well have been one of the factors in determining the outcome of the match. I believe Ali would indeed find a home for both his left jab and right cross, but how much of an effect it would have on Holmes is still in question. While Larry was frequently tagged by right handed fighters, he still took the very best of those punches, and always came back to win in his prime. You still have to "beat" a guy before you can deem a certain obstacle as his ultimate " kryptonite. " As for Ali overcoming the reach of Earnie Terrell, this has to be taken with a grain of salt before making an honest to God comparison as to how he'd deal with an attack from Holmes. Larry was far more mobile than Terrell was. He had greater speed in the late 70's than Earnie possessed in the 60's, and a jab that was in a higher class. And when Muhammad leaned in to throw that double right, it may also have left a nice opening for Holmes to shoot up one of those patented uppercuts that most people ( and fighters ) have so often overlooked.

Nevertheless, I would pick some of the attributes that you have commented on to pose a problem for Holmes, and ultimately to be his undoing. The thing that really stands out between the two men for me though, was Ali's incredible speed and non-stop footwork in the late 60's. We saw a lot less of this in his post-exile career, which is why I'd pick Holmes over Ali anytime after 1970. In 1967 however, I can envision Muhammad being all over Larry like white on rice, and I don't know if Holmes' ring generalship and boxing savvy would be enough..

 

Ali could do that against Folley because he had a height advantage as well as a reach one ,so he is coming over the top of Folley's guard and dropping the right in, as with Liston. Before you say Terrell was 6' 6'',Ernie did not fight tall he fought leaning forward ,he never used his height advantages.
Ali does not possess the power to ko Holmes with one or two shots ,he might buzz him but Holmes probably has the harder right.
Admitedly Holmes was vulnerable to right hands ,because of a low carried left hand, but he took some monster shots ,and had phenomenal powers of recuperation..Along with Lennox Lewis ,I think Holmes is probably the hardest style matchup for Ali,Walcott would give him problems too imo.

 

Great observation and point. Nobody here is saying Ali is getting to KO Holmes, though. But would he be racking up the points? Probably. I think Holmes takes breathers in fights. Ali has conditioning, smarts, speed and mobility. I think Holmes could be somewhat vulnerable to Ali's right hand lead. However, it all depends on how Holmes is managing Ali with the jab. So it's hard to determine.

 

Folley's plan was to jab to Ali's body, because it was simply too difficult to land on his head with the jab (Ali slipped Terrell's and Liston's jab with ease). Ali's answer was to counter over Folley's jab to the body with a couple of rights and it worked to perfection.

The phantom punch too was a quick right hand over the jab, whether you believe it was a legit knockdown or not.

The Holmes jab certainly rates over Terrell's and even Liston's but we shouldn't forget how adept jabbers those two were. Terrell's left was supposedly the best in the division while we all already know about Liston's jab.

I'm not saying that Ali ever fought a Larry Holmes but I'm more confident in Ali being able to handle Holmes' style than Holmes being able to handle Ali's style.

 

Good points. Sometimes people think Ali would struggle with the best jabbers because he relied on his so much, but like you said Liston has an ATG jab even if he was under trained, and Terrell was the height and reach of a Superheavyweight who relied on his jab as his primary weapon. Ali disposed of both with ease.

Larry on the other hand struggled more against guys who could match his jab. Terrible Tim gave him all that trouble, Carl "The Truth" Williams also had an even fight with an over the hill Larry simply because of his jab.

 

Same weapon i have always thought would have been the influential punch in an Ali Louis fight.
Was also the punch that turned the Foreman fight upside down.

Alis lead right is one of the most overlooked facets to his game. Almost be like facing a fast strong southpaw jab

 

Maybe it was a good thing Larry avoided Greg Page.I think Ali could do some damage, but not enough to discourage Larry.

 

Hell, it Norton could trouble Ali with his jab, then you know Holmes would have had even more success..at any time in Ali's career.

 

Ali had major problems with good jabbers in his career...Jones, Norton, Lyle, and Young, and never really timed his cross well over these guys. In fact the tapes will show these guys out jabbed Ali. What do you think a Prime Holmes would do?! Terell was very slow in the Ali fight, so you cannot compare that to a prime Holmes. I forget, did Ali have fits with Bob Foster's outfighting, and get cut in that fight?


I do not think Ali's main strategy would be to timing / avoided Holmes lighting fast and accurate jab ( which was thrown often ) just to land an occasional right cross is on Holmes. In truth, timing a right cross over a fast and accurate jab is one of the hardest type of punches to land in boxing. And Ali's power was not on Shavers or Snipes level in terms of one big shot, so its unlikely to do anything more than win a round.


In truth, Ali had more stylistic flaws that Holmes did, rested more on the ropes, and had less offensive variety in terms of body punching, uppercuts, and hooks.

 

Stylistically though,I don't think that Holmes would have troubled Ali quite as much as Norton did. Norton gave Ali pressure behind his jab,but Holmes would have stood off and jabbed.

 

Ali would definitely have scored plenty of points,with his right AND left,against Holmes. Larry's own jab carried a bit more power,but even the early seventies version of Muhammad was a faster puncher than the Easton Assassin.

 

Landing a double right on a 35 year old , weak chinned Foley and using it effectively against a prime Holmes are day and night comparisons ... Holmes vulnerability to the right is extremely over rated ... in his prime he rarely got hit with much at all let alone rights ... in 33 rounds with Shaver's Earnie landed hard once when Holmes, who was beating him easily simply got lazy. The Snipes fight was another example of Holmes dominating every second of a fight and then getting careless ...

When you live by a fast, long and powerful jab there is a shot of over extending .. However Holmes was lightning fast , had a huge reach and a terrific chin .. sure he got hit from time to time but in his entire career I cannot remember one fight where he waqs hittable till into his post title career ...as far as an Ali match up it would be a super close fight and could go either way ..

 

Ali circa 1964-74 beats Holmes. Would be a close one,certainly.

 

I think the right hand of Louis short,precise,and powerful would have been a deadly weapon against Holmes because of its power and Louis's ability to finish with a combo...Louis may KO Holmes quicker than Tyson...but I also think Louis's left hook could be a problem for Ali

Ali's right would spell trouble combined with his speed for Holmes but Ali was not a tremendous puncher so I think it would have to be an accumulation. Also Holmes style Mirrored Ali's to a degree, Ali had better hand speed and footwork but Larry may have had the better jab,

Ali's speed and agility and right hand would be effective vs Holmes prime for prime but not as deadly as Joe Louis, Marciano and a few other great right hand punchers with stamina and quick execution, which both Louis and Marciano were