Lewis and Marciano both get a bit of hammer in this month's Boxing Monthly

In all fairness, these experts are making some of the very same critcisms that most of us have been making on forums like these for years. I am rather surprised however to hear Burt Sugar give Marciano a bit of a knocking. Usually, he's very much on the side of early classic fighters. Seems somewhat out of character for him, though I really haven't read anything written by him in over 15 years now.

 

Burt Sugar ranks him #6 though. Bert Sugar really is a horrible analyst of Marciano. He rates him a -12 on the richter scale in terms of skill.

This is a bit harsh but true. It's kind one of my justifications for rating Lewis outside the top 10. I have him #11. He is loved here, but I'm not that big on him... and sometimes I wonder if I'm being fair. At least I know I'm not alone.

What's funny is one of the guys (Bert Sugar) who ranks on Marciano in the boxing article rates him #6 while the other guy getting ranked out he has no quoted mention of he ranks somewhere around #17 or #19.

 

Lets not forget that Dempsey got KO'd by Flynn and Liston by Martin, prime or not. Still, those upset losses and Lewis' lack of wins over great fighters in their prime might keep him out of some people's lists.

I'm surprised at Hauser's simplicity. That Marciano was too small and fought old men is something you would expect to hear on these forums, but not from a man of his stature.

 

Naw, Dempsey was only knocked out by Fireman Jim Flynn and it took an absolute god in Leotis Martin to KO Sonny .

The idea that Lewis can't be an ATG because he lost twice is laughable, just like the clown Teddy Atlas.

 

Wow that's even more harsh. How in the world is Teddy Atlas a clown? Liston was way past his prime. And the Flynn and Dempsey fight has some suspicion around it (The controversy over eating or not). Lewis lost in the beginning and tail end of his prime. What happened to Liston at 40 years old really doesn't matter that much now, does it?

Anyone is there a link to this article. Anyway of getting access to it without buying or getting a subscription just for this bit.

 

Comments in red.

 

I believe Lewis to be overrated on ESB, but the man is a lock for the top 10 Heavyweights of all time. He'll forever be haunted by the knockouts of two much lesser fighters, but the way he came back to dominate both combatants is a true showing of character.

 

i read this article afew days back and i said to my Dad that that Teddy Atlas quote was wrong in the means that Dempsey was KOd by Flynn, forgot about poor old Sonny

 

And rightfully so. Lewis fought anyone he could fight for 13 years during a very competitive time for heavyweight boxing, and beat every man he faced. If you don't have to look far for these heavyweights that can beat him, then i guess the heavyweight division hasn't produced a single decent boxer for more than a decade during Lewis' career......


Seriously, i'm wondering if the guy is really that ******ed, or he just loves the stripes too much, or he's trying to build a name with a controversial opinion?


As for Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas: i've never really given their opinion much value. Atlas is an attention ***** with his tough guy stories and holds a record amount of wrong predictions in fights (i think he's on a 10 prediction losing streak for Wlad alone), probably just so he can say "see, i told you, the guy was weak mentally, that's why i knew all along that the underdog would win" in case he hits the jackpot. atsch

 

That does sound like Atlas a bit . Does he really have a 10 consecutive losing streak on picking against Wlad?

 

Ok, even if you discount the Martin fight, Liston still had his jaw broken and was decisioned by a mediocre Light Heavy. Lennox was also never beaten by a fat slob like Willie Meehan.

Anyone who puts a gun to a 14 year olds head is a nutcase, Pontius is right on the money with his assessment of Atlas.

 

Tom Hauser is another pompous ****. Knows a lot, mostly to do with Ali, but applies no logic unless it suits his argument.

Bert Sugar is painfully off the mark every time I hear him speak.

 

"I am rather surprised however to hear Burt Sugar give Marciano a bit of a knocking"

You are! That seems to be all his does. His video on the top ten heavyweights trashes Marciano's opposition to a ridiculous degree. One might argue fair enough. But he rates Dempsey three places higher and never even discussses his level of opposition. Just a rather weary double standard.

For example, the point about Marciano never rubbing against other greats--well, he beat three fighters who were at least great at one point, Louis, Moore, Charles. What great fighters did Dempsey rub up against? Tunney. What great fighters did he defeat, old or not? Zilch.