Ali's Greatest Performance Poll

To some degree this was probably him pumping himself up, but it's true that his tactic was devised on the fact that Liston would tire before him because of the age difference. Interestingly enough Liston tired even quicker than he had thought (probably because of poor preparation), making Ali speed up his original plan.

But this doesn't mean Liston was a nothing. Ali/Clay was younger and had much more stamina, but the psychological edge was all Liston's. I think only a handful of HWs that young and relatively unproven wouldn't have been beaten before the bell rung that night.

 

The psychological advantage should have been Liston's but by fight time it was all Ali's. He went after Liston at every possible opportunity and was completely unintimidated by him.

I think the Liston who fought Ali would have still knocked out most of the opponents he fought. He landed a couple of vicious left hooks and uppercuts on Ali that would have knocked out lesser men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1igH5EFJfI4
4:00

 

Williams leading the poll. Laughable. I'd say it was like fighting a statue but Cleveland had fewer moves.

 

Here's an article about Cleveland Williams and his condition before fighting Ali:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079257/index.htm

Of course I don't buy that he was in "superb" condition, anyone can see it for themselves in the Ali fight or his bouts after that.

 

I think that partly was an act. He said afterwards that he was scared of Liston. Anyhow, not letting his perfomance be affected by fear or intimidation is part of what makes it so great in my eyes.

 

He must have had fear of Liston to some extent (who wouldn't?) but once he got in the ring he seemed to have none.

The pre-fight staredown is one of the best in my opinion, with Liston doing his usual stare while Ali arrogantly looks down on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEip4mxnhMY
3:45

 

I can recall my brother and I getting ready to go to the closed circuit event and on the news there was talk of 'Clay' having lost it and the fight being called off. Ring Magazine had a spread of drawings showing how Liston would stalk Clay down and knock him out.

Bookies stood outside the theater afterward with a wad of money and a line of people waiting for their share.

 

Yeah, sure. But as I said, him overcoming that fear and intimidation is what makes this fight so truly special IMO.

 

Well it makes for a 'Kodak moment'. Special i don't know. it is the way we remember the event now because of the way it was told to us. But with Clay the showman who is to say it was all not just 'drama'?

I seriously doubt that Clay was afraid of Liston. Clay knew people wanted to see him get hurt. He was, IMO, playing that game.

It is true that during that fight he wanted to quit. Thanks to Dundee he didn't. He never indicated in future fights the desire to withdraw from the fray.

 

For sure. Ali's pre-fight antics were legendary as were some of Liston's responses to them.

Ali acting his part of the casino "incident":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrhGtldB5FI

Liston was a big favorite but there were some people who thought Ali/Clay's style would be poison for him:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075623/index.htm

Liston's plan was to fight three times in 1963 but only the rematch with Patterson came off:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1074400/index.htm

 

Calling the Williams fight Ali's greatest performance seems to me to be akin to calling Louis' KO of Jack Roper or Foreman's shellacking of Jose Roman their greatest; when a great champion is facing what, in world class terms, is a lame duck opponent, it is more or less impossible for him to produce his greatest performance, because the opponent doesn't force him to. Ali doesn't look quite so flashy on film against Terrell as against Williams, but it is because he's facing a much more competent opponent who curtails his ability to show off and have his way immediately. I don't know if it was "greater" or not, but I certainly think the Terrell fight was a more impressive win in that it featured Ali making an actual world-class fighter look extremely ineffectual round after round.

If we're talking about the "greatness" of a performance in terms of its efficacy in enhancing a champion's legacy, then I think the Foreman fight takes this by a long shot.

 

I was actually looking for that one. So I just voted Williams.

 

Good point. My feeling is that he showcased his talent to the max against Williams. He did what he wanted against Williams.

I have an idea that the Terrell fight has all the characteristics that would combine into the best. That one I listened to on the radio.

The social setting at that time was a significant player in this fight as Black people, and Ali a 'spokesman' of sorts indicating that they were tired of being under whitey's thumb. Terrell, in this scenario came to represent the culture that would not accept Ali. His desire to refer to Ali by his former slave name ( that how it was referred to) was offensive to Ali and he was man enough to back his feelings up.

I feel that Ali really wanted to hurt Terrell badly. This was a time when black people were just coming to recognize that they were not what white people had told them all along. Black power.

After this of course the government shut Ali down and stole the best three and a half years of boxing history from us.

That IMO makes his fight with Terrell seem better than the more classic demonstration against Williams.

 

Good post. I think we saw the best of Ali in the ring when he fought Williams, Terrell and Folley, but there really is some truth to that only the latter two was good enough to make Ali's wins over them reliable indicators of his ability at that point. I do think that the power of Ali's punching in his win over Williams is something pretty substantial you can take from that fight, though.