So many questions roy...

if you want the man you earn the right. you dont expect the guy at the top of the tree to hand out discount vouchers to fighters who never tried to crack a higher public profile or become more marketable internationally just because its easier to rack up meaningless title defences against b grade fighters.

bottom line - and i'll keep saying it as long as i have too - stop using the guy with the bigger rep and who is more cemented at the top of the heap as a scapegoat for fighters who (mostly) arent prepared to take a leap onto US soil.

considering how weak the middles were for so long its more of a case of shameful that some of these guys never did what they had to do make a fight with jones more than interesting to the networks because, lets face it, jones was knocking guys down like flies.

 

Jones has no Chin, no heart was afraid to make big fights the fans wanted to see instead he fought worthless mandatory opponents that were police officers, sanitation workers and bartenders.

Jones is one of the biggest frauds in the 100 prestigious years of Boxing.

 

RJJ was never hurt at middleweight and could take punches watch some tapes. RJJ hate threads are always created on this site you guys have secret man-crushes on RJJ. I don't think alot of those guys wanted to fight RJJ.

 

Virgil Hill > Harding, Woods, Tarver.

 

These guys never "earned" the right but Clinton Woods did???

And there's worse on the resume than that!!!

 

How about they all ducked Jones, given Jones was a class above the lot and theres actual proof plenty of them avoided the fight????????????

Eubank - ducked him on RJJs way up and in 1998, Jones destroyed Mallinga who arguably beat Eubank
Benn - was with king so unmakable and wanted 15mil, lost twice to Mallinga who Jones destroyed
DM - turned the fight down in the US
McClellan - got
Collins - wanted 6million that he wasnt worth so RJJ fought Macullum who beat him, then Collins ran into retirement
Calzaghe - Joe was a nobody at this stage and no one in Britain new him let alone in the US, lets also remember Joe said Jones was unbeatable when both were champs and Joe was scared of flying and wouldnt fly - all his own words. Lets also not forget after Jones was ko'd twice Joe said in his autobiongraphy that he'd never face a shot fighter like Jones and then did

 

This thread is only valid if you're prepared to ask the same questions of Joe Calzaghe.
Why did Joe wait 8 and a half years after winning the WBO belt before participating in a unification fight? Is it because the WBC might have made him fight credible mandatory fights? Let's not forget that Joe only fought two mandatories during his reign. Mario Veit twice.
When Joe fought Peter Manfredo jr, nearly ten years after winning the aforementioned WBO strap he claimed he did so to raise (build?) his profile in America. Why had he waited so long?
Why did he rarely fight outside of the United Kingdom? Granted Hopkins/Jones Jr don't, but they enjoyed world status for a far greater portion of their careers then Joe did. Joe only began to gain recognition around 2006 (is it any coincidence this i the period when he mauled Lacy?)
Joe only became the unified Super Middle champion in his last fight at the weight. For much of his reign he wasn't reguarded as the number one.
His failure to fight for the WBC/WBA/IBF titles allowed lesser men to win belts and refer to themselves as world champions. For a period of 5 years Hopkins was the WBC/WBA/IBF champ. He was the man for a prolonged period, something Joe can never claimed to have been.

 

Nope. He lost once to Malinga. When he was shot (he went on to lose twice to Collins, and then retired).

 

Hopkins never won any belts at smw. He skipped that divison. Yes I admit he beat a blown up welter to win the WBA belt, but he was already the WBC/IBF champion, and he had been the IBF champ for over 6 years by the time he beat Trinidad. And prior to the Trinidad fight he beat Keith Holmes (to unify the WBC/IBF belts), a top fighter who was a two time WBC middleweight champ.
I only regarded Hopkins as the man from the point he beat Trinidad, because up until that point he was only a titlist, despite the impressive nature of his achievements. So from the point he beat Trinidad for 5 years he was the dominant middleweight holding the WBC/WBA/IBF. FACT. The 6 years previous he could only be referred to as a titlist.
The point I was making is that no other fighter could walk around posturing as a champ because he held the belts. Joe was a titlist for nine years, and only became the dominant smw in his last fight at the weight.
Whilst he held the WBO belt men such as Beyer, Catley, Thobela, Sanavia, Lucas etc all held belts. If he had sought to unify earlier these men would never have had the right to refer to themselves as former world champions.
And I notice you have failed to address any criticisms I made of Joe, choosing instead to attack Hopkins's resume, and specifically his least impressive marquee victories. Why don't you make another thread highlighting the many flaws in Joe's resume, which even his most ardent fans concede?

 

By the way i'm not even a Hopkins fan. I just find it bizarre that you attack Jones Jr and fail to concede that Joe was guilty of the same failings. Moreso in fact.

 

Apologies. I'm new here. Midway through my post I suspected you might not be serious, but i've encountered so many lunatics on this forum in such a short period of time, I went with my initial instinct and convinced myself you were another unbalanced type.
As regards Joe I agree with you. Apparently prior to the Lacy fight he suffered form a lack of self-confidence (!), which was partly the reason for his refusal to travel. I just wonder how he would be reguarded if he had travelled to Germany and knocked Beyer out (as he would've done), and unified the division much earlier. However he probably would've needed to fight for the WBA/IBF titles before Ottke got his grubby paws on them...