Winky Wright vs. Joe Calzaghe -- better career & resumé?

For a guy who claimed to be so great (nevermind the claims by himself & his dad of being greatest in the world of his generation... & his dad goes as far as All-Time!),, sure took him a helluva long time to decide to step-up to 175... and even then he didn't fight any real light-heavyweights... nevermind GOOD, young light-heavyweights... he did OLD b-hop & OLD, SHADOW of a SHADOW aka Roy Jones Jr.

i'm insulted that the voting was even close.

when you look at it closely.. I'm sure you'll all go down the route Dinamita did.
You start wondering, wait a minute.. why do i actually rate this guy so highly???

 

Calzaghe still defeated the better fighters, despite having more trash on his resume. He's also got the better accomplishments, being the ring champ in 2 divisions simultaneously and not losing to the best fighters he fought.

Winky had a fine career- but Calzaghe's was better IMO.

 

Calzaghe has the better resume. He has better wins overall, and being undefeated doesn't hurt either.

I don't think the Mosley wins were the greatest thing in the world given that they came after Forrest laid the blueprint and were fought at 154. (This isn't hindsight for me. I expected Wright to dominate.) And Trinidad was a joke when Winky fought him. Other than that, Winky's resume isn't that great...a draw with Taylor...beating McCart...loss to Vargas.

 

will deal with the 2 above guys here:

The way you refer to the Taylor draw w/o mentioning how controversial it was.. & the way you do the same with Vargas (again, pretty damn controversial) leads me to question how much you actually know about this.

This is Eastside. We probe the fights themselves & take them in context... not just leaving it at what the fighter's record says. Your post will be dealt with below as well =]

again... ignorance.

The only great of this generation that Calzaghe beat while still a live fighter was Hopkins.. and that was close.. and given B-Hop's age, was it any surprise that Calzaghe with that speed was going to outwork him in the later rounds?
And even then it was still bloody close & warranted a re-match which never came to pass.

You want to compare biggest wins.. well then.

Joe Calzaghe: B-Hop (split, close & questionable), Kessler (untested after.. how the Kessler win lasts depends on what he doest post-Calzaghe.. and for that we have to wait til super6 plays out).

That's it. Roy was a shadow of a shadow of his former self (yes, a shadow of a shadow... of his former-self) & Eubank was aging as a fighter and quite a bit past his prime! But I'm going to be kind at let Eubank count.

vs.

Winky: had two wins over p4p t3 Mosley at the time when Roy was still p4p1 ; a win over Tito & (LANDSLIDE... won almost every round...-- while Tito's biggest fans say not his prime.. but deffo still live & kicking -- more than Eubank was vs. Calzaghe & certainly multiple times more than Roy was vs. JC))

and since the B-Hop 'win' is milked for all its worth in favour of Calzaghe, then it is only fair that Winky is given both the Taylor & Vargas fights... both, most ppl thought Winky won.

And that Taylor one is HUGE.. considering he was coming off of back-to-back wins.. de-throning long-time KING bernard.


so in their 'biggest fights'

you have...

B-Hop (close, split & questionable) + Kessler (untested before & yet to be tested after) + Eubank (long past his prime). [[you can add Lacy here too even though Lacy failed to become relevant after Calzaghe!]]

vs.

Mosley1, Mosley2 (p4p t3), Tito (showing he still had it & also had only ever lost ONCE before to B-Hop! remember, this is was a Tito coming off a TKO of a well-rated Mayorga who had beaten Vernon Forrest TWICE the year before.. and that was Vernon Forrest AFTER Forrest beat Mosley TWICE, )
+ Taylor (p4p t5, just beaten B-Hop twice.. BACK TO BACK!); + a younger Vargas.


and you think Calzaghe wins that battle? you, sir, are funneh!


and that's ignoring HOW they cleared out their division... (Winky again & again.. Calzaghe -- took him almost 10 years + that was only by virtue of beating one man: Kessler, whilst Winky fought everyone... again & again... all the top challengers.. even those he had beaten before -- like Bronco McKart).

come on, seriously.


If we're talking biggest wins -- Winky still wins.
If we're talking the 'rest' of their careers.. title defences, all the other fights -- Winky STILL wins.

If we're talking 'numbers' on a record -- only then does JOE win.

 

Winky Wright: Mullings, Mosley x2, Trinidad, Quartey

Joe Calzaghe: Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins, Jones

I'd go with Winky. . . . .

 

it's funny but you can even argue that the real lasting-worth of that Lacy win is not greater than Winky's wins over McKart.

Lacy failed to come back to even fight for a world title after losing to Winky!

While perhaps it was a greater performance.. a virtuoso performance.. than Winky vs. McKart,, its long-term worth is worth what? Lacy was a prospect (though holding a world title) when Joe beat him (overhyped by yank boxing media who often don't rate ppl across the pond as highly as they deserved to be) & after Joe beat him.. he failed to become relevant again.


lol... looking back at Joe's record.. it's funny how he took 5 rounds to get rid of Sheika.. while washed up ROY did it in the last 12months... hahahah.

 

dammit, yes, in that last long post -- i forgot about Ike Quartey.
I mean if we count Eubank & Roy was notables for Joe... then Winky deserves Ike..
[ i mean, Ike did beat Verno Phillips the year before didn't he? ]

 

Put it this way you can name 10 fighters+ who faced better opposition than Joe and deserve to be ranked higher past 15 years!

Toney
Hopkins
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
Pacman
De La Hoya
Trinidad
Jones
Ricardo Lopez
WInky
Holyfield
Lewis....

How anyone can rate Calzaghe with these guys ....please explain

 

I realise this is fairly peripheral, but what on Earth would be proved by Kessler rematching Andrade, after having utterly outclassed him the first time? Was 12 rounds to nil on every scorecard not decisive enough for you? Also, as a factual matter, Kessler v Andrade was prior to Kessler/Calzaghe.

 

when people look back at boxers and how great they were marciano would not be mentioned in the same sentence as ali if it wasnt for the fact he was undefeated.
being undefeated is rare and puts you in the history books.

people can argue all they like now, but calzaghe will be long in the history books when people are saying "winky who?"
​

 

Its Joe C. its not just about the opposition but how well you did. And Vargas did beat winky, and so did Taylor Winky's lucky he got a draw, the best fighters Winky beat were Trinidad and Mosley, but above their natural wieght classes.

 

i like winky but calzaghe takes this. Defo

 

Imo Joe held a fringe belt for the majority of his career. At first he was clearly underrated but he never made the effort to fight the worthwile fights during that time. The WBO was also still more of a fringe belt back then held by the Europeans.

I always thought Joe would beat Lacy, and considered Lacy to be overrated at the time (who had he beat and how did he look). The total domination was a surprise though. Kessler is his best win, and I think considering the 168 division at the time Kessler had the best resumé.

He fought all the top 5 prior to fighting Joe. I also think the Hopkins win is meaningful, although I had Hopkins or draw (but did not think that Hopkins would get the decision because he his punch output was low and activity slipped towards the end).

Jones is meaningless to some extent imo. Just a name and a former shell. I think Calzaghe earned some greatness towards the end of his career, but for a long time he fought really shitty opponents (e.g. Podwill) and went years without facing mandatory challengers of the weakest body.

Wright wins easily on resumé imo. Mosley 2X (undisputed title), Hopkins, Trinidad, Taylor, Simon, Vargas, Quartey and Williams are a who is who from 154-160 range. He has more losses but also fought the better fighters for the more significant titles.

Career is close as Winky was undisputed at one weight class and almost at another as well. If we look at career in terms of opponents and notoriety I would say Winky. If I would say maximising monetary rewards and returns on investment, Calzaghe is one of the very best.

 

i'll pan this one out for you...and anyone else who wants to listen.

winky was one of the few fighters who genuinely was avoided through his career, and calzaghe genuinely avoided fighters through his career.

both were excellent fighters....

 

i think he meant rematching calzaghe.