KO12 Kostya Tszyu, KO4 Jose Luis Castillo

[quote="TKO";4653853]Nobody said they were the greatest but I doubt you would get too much resistance to the idea of them both as all-time greats and two of the best of the last 15-20 years. And yet you can make a list exactly the same of the fighters they never fought. This is simply an example, I guarantee you I can do it for pretty well any fighter of the same period. The point, which seems to have escaped your intellect is that bearing in mind (as per my post above) the number of world class fighters in and around a fighter's weight class, picking out the ones they didn't fight is not exactly a difficult task. You could quite easily do it for Pacman as well (Soto, Guzman, Valero, Casamayor, Campbell, Juan Diaz, Bradley, Witter etc... just as a basic starting point sure there are far more from his flyweight/super bantam days).

Your comments re: Jones having a far better career than Hatton and re: greatness being only for the true cream of the crop are accurate, but they are also completely irrelevant to this discussion. And for all your meaningless analogies about charades or smoke and mirrors (which are straight out of the Betty school), I would rather stick to the hard truth.

Which is that Ricky Hatton has had a good career in which he has beaten two p4p ranked fighters, a number of other good beltholder/top ten level fighters, been widely accepted as the top guy in his division for 4 years and lost only to two bona fide all-time greats. That, in my view, means he has had a very good career. Better than all British fighters of my generation with the exceptions of Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Naseem Hamed and Nigel Benn (possibly Eubank as well but his top performances on some good nights were interspersed with far too many sleepwalking shows against average fighters).

This means he has had a career which he can be proud of. He has been a better fighter and fought better opposition than 99% of British fighters of the same era. He is one of the greatest British fighters of the last 20 years and has had a pretty good record by anyone's standards. Of course he's not going to go down as a legend or an all time great but he was far better than your run-of-the-mill beltholder type and I wouldn't be amazed if he managed to sneak into the hall of fame.

That is all.[/quote]

blah blah blah...........the main point is this.........Hatton when he became champ of 140 pound division could have faced better opponents than he did.........hence me naming so many other fighters he COULD have fought of course you can list such and such not facing such and such. Your not getting the point.........Pacman went after the best AVAILBLE fighters he could fight.........so its no good saying he didnt fight such and such as if to make some sort of valid point which in essence is void in its very base. In fact the fact that you mentiond the fighters pacman didnt face is incredibly funny..........and if no one else sees that then it shows so much for each and every individual.

Pacman faced Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya and now facing Cotto. I bet you any money that if he defeats cotto he will go after mawyweather or the likes of P. Williams.......the guy will try anything to test himself.

Il say it again average world class fighter............popularity clouded real sound judgement.

In fact Hatton is on the same level as carl froch is on the world stage along with Calzaghe.

Froch is also making Joe im gonna take 10 years to do something look somewhat silly.

 

[quote="TKO";4653886]You say you are not biased against his career and then come out with something like this? You then wonder why you lack credibility on this board? Utter tripe I would say. Nice avatar and that's about it.[/quote]


Im not biased at all you foollllll........who do u think i supported wen he fought pacman and Mayweather? ****ing the manchester brawler....Exactly u aint got a clue......what i dont like is the fact that people try to make out he is an all time great which suggests he is on par with other greats.

Skill, technique, etc etc is severly lacking for Mr Hatton.

The fact that i spoke of him fighting his 330th champion from 130 pound division was to make several points.........A. taking the **** out of Hatton talking to the casual observer of our sport and media about how he is a 5 time champ etc and 8 weight champion and the fact that people will sit in all day and harp on about his win over ****ing castillo who fought most of his carrer a division lower.

The guy never took flat out risks or did anything to suggest he was trying some great...............of course taking on mayweather and pacman was a risk but one that came with him being able to say he lost to the very best in his weight.

I have no doubt that hatton himself actually thought he cud beat them hence the reason he fought then and for huge amount of cash.

 

So you don't think asking why Hatton didn't fight Devon Alexander and bunch of welterweights is just a little bit biased? Whoever Hatton fought inbetween 2005-2008 at 140 you'd just say they wern't as good as the guys he didn't fight. If he hadn't have fought them fighters like Urango and Mallinaggi would become world beaters that Hatton ducked.

And how about then saying that 140lb division shouldn't even exist? The same division thats been around for 50+ years and has thrown up champions like Pryor, Zoo, Cervantes etc? Is that the lengths you're willing to go to discredit Hatton, abolish an entire weight class??

 

when he stopped castillo, people gave hatton the nod of being elite! Ok he gota gift against that latino kat, forgot his name, that was at 147..

Hatton got caught up in his celebrations, eating and drinking. But he his victories over those two, will hold him high in British Boxing!

 

That Bum would never won Tzsyu in a boxing match foolish Brits

 

Nice point buddy.

 

My point Gaz, is that Hatton has so many fighters left off his ledger that to call him great signifies that he some sort of god like boxer when he has failed to meet at least half of the other top boxers around.

Me throwing in Alexander is showing yet another top fighter around his weight that Hatton will not risk it with.

If Hatton really wanted to........becuase of fame and popular support could makes so many fights before next summers its unreal......if he keeps harping about being a legend.....why cant he take on his old rival and shut the likes of me or any other critic of his carrer up......wouldnt it be brill if Hatton smashed him up? but he wont......why cant he take on Bradley or Alexander the new guns on the block.

Why cant he take on Mosley or P. Williams and take proper risks?

Are we really gonna sit back and let him tell us that he took risks by fighting Mayweather and Pacman?

there was no risk......Hatton thought he could beat them becuase he believed he was bigger, and deluded himself. He also deep down knew and his handlers that the reward was far to good to turn down and he could come out with the old 'well i lost to the pound for pound best'........he lost nothing in the true sense of the word.

If Hatton went on took on Bradley who is on his way up and has two belts or ****ing takes a huge gamble and takes on mosley (bigger than him) or witter (stock has gone down) then do you really think people are gonna moan that much?

I reckon he would win a few of them..........but we will never know......as he hand picks.

Im not biased towards this guy carrer...........Floyd is just as bad......if Floyd leaves his own era without fighting Cotto, Mosley, Margarito and P. Williams then you cant put him a true all time great simple.

As ive said before Pacman was a legend before he starting taking on the 140 pounders and 147 pounders.......by taking on pound for pound legends in Morales, Barrera and top fighters like Marquez et al.

The fact he went on to beat Oscar and Hatton so easily shows up Floyd badly.

Hatton average world champ RIP

 

Do you think he could beat Paul Williams?


Im a Hatton fan and of course he cant. You not think Hatton knows this?
So why the **** would he take a fight he has no chance of winning?

To prove something to hateful pricks like you?

Your arguements make ZERO sense,WHATS YOUR ACTUAL POINT ANYWAY?

 

1. Who is calling him great? Very few knowledgeable boxing fans will tell you he's nothing more than a very good world champion who had some notable wins and is one of the top British fighters of his era.

2. As regards Alexander, you have just proven the point I was making yesterday about the huge number of fighters in the ratings and how any idiot can list the fighters a guy didn't take on. Alexander has had one (unsatisfactory but) decent win and you're rabbiting on about Hatton not facing him. This is the whole point, the top ten rankings change continuously, as soon as you beat one guy another takes his place. Look at Calzaghe, as soon as he beat Lacy he's ducking Kessler as soon as he beats Kessler he's ducking Dawson or Froch.

3. Witter (I assume that's who you mean) is Hatton's rival in his own head only. Rivalry has to be two ways and Hatton simply doesn't give a stuff about him. If you think that smashing him up would shut up any critic of Hatton's career then you are deluded, the majority of these people are those who have taken some ******ed dislike to him and will criticise ANYTHING he ever does. Hell the moment Witter lost to Bradley and Hatton signed the Malignaggi (the last "new kid on the block") fight, the "Hatton is avoiding Bradley" threads started.

4. He is not a real welterweight and only stepped up there for the lure of getting Mayweather in the ring. Guys like Williams and Mosley would be far too big for him. If you're comfortable at a weight class, there is little point stepping out of it unnecessarily.

5. However, you like to try and twist things, taking on the top two pound for pound fighters in boxing is taking the two biggest risks in boxing, i.e. the two fighters you're most likely to lose to. Plus going to the states to do it as well. I haven't seen a British fighter take that kind of risk since Lennox Lewis (OK maybe Clinton Woods v RJJ). These guys are fighters, they don't think about "what can I say if I lose", they think about the best opponents and the best challenges. No other British fighter of the last 20 years other than Lewis has taken on the kind of challenges Hatton has.

Your posts are not logical. They seem to be nothing more than "why didn't he fight this guy or that guy"? As I have already demonstrated several times, there is nothing easier than to pick out a list of fighters a champ didn't face. Being a fair minded guy I prefer to concentrate on what he DID achieve as I do for all fighters. I think there are only Lewis, Hamed, Benn and (arguably) Calzaghe of the last 20 years who have achieved more for British boxing. But to start from the perspective of "who can I find that he didn't face" simply shows a pre-conceived negative slant which makes your posts lack any kind of credibility.

 

I don't see anyone calling him "great" or an ATG? To use your words an "Average world champion" is a ****ing good fighter in my book.

Hatton fighting people like Margo and Williams isn't a risk, they are both pretty much unwinnable fights for Hatton IMHO given his style and physical limitations.

He did have a decent set of opponents at 140 from 2005 onwards and deliberately picking out the guys from that weight that he didn't fight as being the best IS being very one-eyed over Hattons career.

Alexander has been on the scene for less than a week and Hatton is avoiding him? If Hatton had of fought Alexander before that you be calling the guy an unproven prospect and slagging off Hatton for not fighting Malinaggii who was a former belt holder and Hattons number 1 contender.

 

Agree with everything you said there TKO but he should've faced Witter you not think?
When they were both coming through,that was a fight that was building up nicely.

 

Yep, no argument there, a Hatton-Witter fight from 2003-2005 would have been a great domestic match up but it didn't happen. Life goes on and, given who Hatton went on to fight, its not the big issue that some agenda driven people would like to make it into.

 

This thread needs to be deleted promptly.

It started off pretty badly and has descended into muppetry.

 

Was it the "Hatton ducked Alexander" part?

 

That was a lowlight.