Hearns vs. Fitzsimmons at catchweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Aug 8, 2009.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Absolutley. Absolultey he was. With one punch.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #31
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If he was actualy 150 then I will bend a knee to you on this one but was he?

    The fact that he failed to make the weight once suggests to me that he was probably more like 155.9999 and then they just reported whatever weight he asked them to.

    There is so much misinformation surrounding weigh ins of this period that it is hard to be sure.
     
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    #32
  3. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Janitor and Mcgrain do you agree with anything in my arguemnet against Fitzsimmons power? i could be wrong its just a feeling i got (about his power)
     
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    #33
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What is clear is that Fitzsimmons arrived overweight and then was asked to take weight off. His weight was an issue in every newspaper article i've read on this fight. As you say, it is difficult to be sure where the weigh ins are concerned in this era - but I am as sure as it is possible to be about this one.

    Reporters would have been very keen to get to the bottom of what had become a big issue in affecting the fight, after all.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #34
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Pound for pound he's only really got guys like Foster and Langford for company. Huge hitter and proven.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #35
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    put him with 10oz gloves on do you think he still KOs the guys.

    Remmeber the glove will be bigger so harder to land exactly placed shots
     
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    #36
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's funny, because some other guy was making the exact opposite argument in general today :lol: Round and around we go.

    As you've said yourself, placement and accuracy was one of Fitz's specialities. I think he'd be fine.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #37
  8. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    haha that is strange, littler gloves do more damage end of

    The more i think of it he was some hitter, still think its a tad overated and mystified (glorified even) but his precision was top class
     
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    GPater11093, Aug 9, 2009
    #38
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Doctor Margaret Goodman in Ring discussed this at some point, and she indicated that the pressure needed to induce concussion wasn't different. What was different was that bare knuckles/light gloves cause more damage to hands and face but are not more likely to induce a knockout.

    As for his being overated as a puncher - he's got the knockout's from 150 up to 200. Can anyone in history match that? Only Langford.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #39
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    While 4oz gloves were the norm in Fitz's era, both he and Sullivan fought some bouts with 8oz gloves because some states mandated them (they were described as pillows at the time).

    I think that the 4 oz gloves that Fitzsimmons wore in most of his bouts were probably similar in effect to the 5oz gloves that Jack Dempsey used to knock out Jess Willard.

    On the issue brought up by McGrain about whether larger gloves help or hinder I am not sure. The gloves can be something of an added weapon.

    I know that Jack Dempsey was doing similar damage with 16 oz sparring gloves to what he did with 5 oz gloves in profesional bouts.
     
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Indeed.

    Fitz-Dempsey was fought with 5 oz gloves.
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #41
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There was actualy a bob fitzsimmons ranked in the top 10 by ring magazine around that time.
     
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Also Janitor, there is this:

    "The men weighed in in the presecence of an aundience, Fitzsimmons marking 150 and 1/2, Dempsey 147 and 1/2."

    Morning edition of the San Fransico Call, January 15th 1891 morning edition. The story is echoed elsewhere (looks like a synditate though).

    So Fitz is likely to have stepped into the ring significantly lighter than Miguel Cotto's 158 ish. Still no guarantees, Fitz is described as looking stretched and the appearance of the two men seems to have shifted the betting at ringside (Fitz was described as looking drawn and Dempsey greeted the first bell as favourite).

    Fitzsimmons v Marciano is a thing of the past. We'll now have Fitzsimmons v Leonard and Burley. It boggles the mind really. Talk about a "puncher's chance".
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #43
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If you accept all these articles to be true (as I am understanding it) then it would suggest that Fitz failed to make the 156 limit then droped six pounds in a few hours and came in at 150.

    That suggests something fishy to me.

    It is possible that Fitz was 156 but that his weight was anounced at 150 because Dempsey was 147. It is also possible that I am speculating up the wrong street.

    Either way Fitzsimmons Leonard cannot be ruled out.
     
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    janitor, Aug 9, 2009
    #44
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Could be. I'm presuming that some sort of catchweight was in place, in fact...it would be nice to see. These reports ARE made in a clatter, but I can't believe that a proffessional journalist would report both these things - basically that Fitzsommons lost 8lbs in one work out.

    Was the old mw limit 156 or 154? I think now that it was 154?
     
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 9, 2009
    #45
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