The ESB Fitzsimmons Project

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 10, 2009.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    As an odd sidenote, Rickson Gracie's stance, heel-to-toe footwork, and lunging left lead are also vaguely reminiscent of Fitzsimmons' style. (He's an MMA guy, not a boxer). He was a rather poor striker, but it's weird just the same.

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  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Excellent. I'm looking forward to it. :good
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    been going through some stuff.

    just getting to grips with the fundamentals. My mate is away camping but he does karate so ill enlist in his help at some point to give me a hand.

    One thing i have noticed having the front toe on the ground gives excellant movement and agility
     
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Interesting. :think

    From my own (admittedly brief so far) experiments, the back-foot-flat-on-floor-front-foot-raised-on-toe arrangement makes it a bit more difficult to back up effectively, but makes forward movement, sidestepping, and foot placement for counterpunching a lot easier.

    One note on the "shift", which is the last picture in the series. (It's the one where Fitzsimmons switches to southpaw and nails the body and head with left-hand shovel hooks): the movement, as far as I can tell, is preceded by either a right hand "swing" or a straight right in which you drag the right foot forward as you punch, thereby switching from orthodox to southpaw. With your right foot on the outside of his left foot, you then dig into the body with the left (back) hand.

    Unfortunately, he doesn't mention the right-hand setup for the "shift", so I had to do a little experimentation and some online research before I figured it out.
     
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    The back foot on the ground as you say makes forward movement and sidestepping quicker and your brillaintly placed for counter shots. Also try sprining back using your left knee that is bent. This makes you move back quickly and how Fotz did it as it says in his manuel. What i thinks good about this fott placement is your always in a good position to punch or defend.

    As for the right hand i wasd practising it with my brother. Fitz squared up himself and normally took his right back after he threw it. Its interesting he says he sometimes switched southpaw and threw a double left hook it makes good sense. As i wondered why he said he sometimes stepped forward after his right hand but had earlier said you shouldnt switch hit (not directly in a picture it showed someone stepping back with their left first and it stated this was incorrect)
     
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Yep, the spring back works very well in those circumstances, with the front foot already halfway raised to begin with. It's funny--I'd actually practiced it a few times as he'd described it, but I hadn't realized that it was the main method of moving backwards. Good call. :good

    Yep, I think he intended the earlier "incorrect" step to illustrate why you shouldn't normally step that way. Switch hitting seems to have been a temporary thing as part of a right hand-left hookercut body-left hookercut head combination (or left-right-left-left if you preface it with a jab).
     
  8. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    THe spring is how he actually described going back.

    Ahh got you about the incorrect step. Them pictures around that page is hilarious with the self defence stages and one of the moves is to pull the guys jacket down over his arms.:lol:

    So when you throw the right hand do you pull your back leg with it so your feet are together then you step your right foot backwards (or forwards for the double left hook)

    do you throw every right like that
     
  9. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Yeah, the "A man wants to start a fight with me, so I pull the jacket over his arms and he is at my mercy" stuff is pretty funny. :lol:

    I reread all of the text dealing with throwing the right hand. I think that he means this:

    * When you throw the straight right hand, advance the right foot slightly. Not past the left foot, just forward a couple inches. Then bring it back. I've noticed that this gives you a lot of leverage.

    * When you intend to do the switch-hit combination (straight right, left hook, left hook), throw the right and then step with the right foot past the left, so that you're standing in a southpaw stance. Then throw the hooks with the left (now rear) hand.

    * When you throw the right hook, move the right (back) foot forward until your feet are side-by-side. Then either continue moving forward into a southpaw stance or move back into a normal stance. This one is kinda weird the first couple of times you try it, but it seems to work nicely when you get the hang of it.


    ....I may be mistaken in some of these interpretations. If you notice anything that should be changed (either because of the text or because it seems a little awkward), I'd welcome your ideas. :good
     
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Thats how i see it also.

    with the right 'swing' your in a perfect place to create new angles from your feet being close together.

    This feetwrk is completly unorthodox but very very clever
     
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    It's interesting to literally step into Fitzsimmons' shoes and figure out how he moved.

    Warning: philosophical babbling ahead.

    There's something fascinating in going through the steps of a dry, dusty boxing manual and suddenly realizing why a particular movement makes sense. You can never read an old novel or watch an old movie without consciously realizing that it's something that was made a long time ago. It's almost impossible to put yourself in the same frame of mind as the original audience. But with old fighting manuals, you're on the same level as the first people to ever read it. It makes just as much sense now as it ever did. It allows you to realize that historical people were real flesh-and-blood beings better than almost any experience I know.
     
  12. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    yeh it is brillaint doing something like this.

    this project is a challenge and i think we will end up with somethign very similar to Fitz but with our own little added twist.
     
  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Fitz Fu? Jufitzu? :D
     
  14. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    haha
     
  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Bump.

    Thoughts, anyone? Any information you think might be useful? Does anyone have any other Fitzsimmons footage? Or even pictures of him demonstrating techniques?