Sam Langford vs. Joe Calzaghe

Bummy, come on. You can't believe that Ketchel fight was legit.

Cal was elusive and had an unusal style. He had speed and a terrific champions heart. Great stamina ... he would trouble Langford but Sam had speed, strength and unparrelled power ...

I say Sam catches him and takes him out in a competitive bout ...

 

Sam, by emphatic ko ,under any rules.

 

I think Clazaghe is an under rated modern fighter. If Clazaghe had a flaw it was that he lacked big power to keep fighters off him, and was not super tough in the ring. I think you need to keep Langford off with something from the outside, or he's going to close the gap on you al la Joe Fraizer and unleash a powerful two fisted attack.

On films Langford it looks like he needs some work on defense, but in the end I believe Langford would prevail via TKO. Clazgahe makes a good showing, and perhaps is up on points prior to the stoppage.

 

Calzaghe had 32 kos in 46 fights he could hit ok ,but developed bad hands.
Calzaghe simply is not in Langford's league.

 

Calzaghe is a boxing swarmer IMO

Langford is a boxing puncher

the boxing bit cancels each other out and puncher beats swarmer

so Langford wins

 

I think that Langford may be getting a little overated and Calzaghe underated in this one. Definitely Langford starts as heavy favourite, and Calzaghe at long, long odds. I think that i would be definitely put a bit on Calzaghe because it is a much closer fight than this.

Firstly, the weight would be almost certainly 168. This is the weight that Calzaghe fought at. And unlike Langford, he didnt fight in the higher weight divisions. So at which stage of his career can Langford take this fight? I dont think it is possible that he could boil down at a late stage of his career, as from what i understand, he was a bit of A james Toney in regards to weight gain (though obviously not in the same class) due to poor diet and other factors.

I wonder though, in these early stages of his career whether Langford was the fearsome puncher and skilled fighter that he would become? Certainly most of his legacy is based on him not being, because otherwise the Lanford fans would have to admit that he was never really in Jack Johnson's class as Johnson totally thrashed him. Anyway, back to the point (and it is hard because boxrec doesnt mention his weights so i have to guess a bit).

In 1903, the lighter version of Sam Langford defeated Joe Gans on points but followed this with a Newspaper decision loss to Jack Blackburn and a Draw with Jack Blackburn. Also, there was a draw with Andy Watson, which is all suggesting that Lanford was not yet the awesome finisher that he became. This is further evidenced by Langford going the distance regularly at this time, with fighters Like Joe Walcott and Dave Holly. In the last holly fight, his weight is up to 150 with Holly at 137. By the middle of 1905 his weight was reported to be 155 in one of his 2 draws with Young Peter Jackson who was a decent middleweight. THis was just a month before Langford's loss to Larry Temple.

Again, this loss was followed by some draws with points decisions to Blackburn, Young Peter Jackson and Temple. In December 1905, Langford lost by TKO to Joe Jeanette. Jeanette's weight is unclear, although a year or so later he fought at 185, so i think it realistic to suggest that he was perhaps around this weight. And he fought most of his career at Heavy so i think this loss is not really of any consideration as Jeanette likely had a lot more power than Calzaghe.

In 1906 Lanford finally KOd Temple, though looking at Temples results, it may have been more to do with Temple declining than anything. Later in the year, Langford lost on points to Johnson (a fully fledged heavyweight) but this was followed by a TKO loss in the 5th round to Young Peter Jackson - The middleweight.

We then move on to 1907 where Langford had a series with the middleweight Jim Barry. It started with a lost Newspaper decision, where both fighters were Knocked down once. Although by January 1908, Langford had one two mor fights against Barry, both were on points and not by KO. During this time, his 20 rnd fight with Young Peter Jackson never produced a draw either.

1908 is about where Langford started fighting heavier fighters and producing his amazing wins, form and KOs and presumably he started showing signs of his power. He twice Ko d Jim Barry in the early rounds and he KOd fireman Jim Flynn in a round. 1909 pretty much saw a wrecking machine develop against the better heavy fighters of the time and his career at heavy is pretty well documented.

The turnaround in Lanford's form really is amazing at this point. It seems to me two things. Firstly, this is about the time where Langford started going up in weight. I also get the feeling that at this time, Lanford must have changed his style and started training and concentrating on power shots. Thus, to me at least (and i would to hear from of the knowledgeable langford posters) he must have been a totally different fighter from this point. I presume this coincides with a move out of the middleweight division.

So, in hindsight, i dont think that the Langford Calzaghe meets at middleweight is the actual Langford that became such a great fighter. In this regard, you can see that Langford was often knocked off his feet and rarely kod the very best fighters he fought. If he wins, it wont be by KO, it will need to be on points.

Joe Calzaghe is an interesting fighter in all time matchups. For most of his career and certainly his prime, he wasnt considered the best Supermiddle in the world. He had some close fights, but he always came through. To be honest, the best fighters he fought like Jones Jr, Hopkins, Eubank were all past their best. But he did win all fights and he did beat soem other decent fighters at the time too, like Mitchell, Lacy, Reid. It is hard to say that Calzaghe would be outclassed, when noone ever outclassed him. He was knocked down, but unlike Lanford, he was never stopped.

In fact, it is hard to believe that some of the fighters that Middleweight Sam lost to or struggled with, would have made much of an impression on the much bigger Joe Calzaghe.

In thinking of this fight, it is hard, because i dont think that Middleweight Sam could have possibly had the same hard hitting style that we all think of. If he did, then he was obviously a long way from the fighter he would become and he would not be in the same league as Calzaghe. Looking at the fight, i think that Calzaghe is a little more proven at the weight.

I would therefore suggest that he would get a decision and his speed would be a little to much for young Langford to handle. Incidentally, at heavyweight, i dont think Calzaghe has much of a chance at all.

 

Calzaghe's head would be dangling from his spinal cord by the end of this fight. Though he might be ahead on points.

 

Good post ,have you factored in Langfords showing aginst Ketchel,in which I beleive he was under wraps?
Langford did go up and down in weight ,but more at the middle and latter part of his career Imo,he scaled 156 to Johnson's 185, so no shame in taking a beating there.

 

Actually I dont think he has any actual KOs, there maybe 1 or 2, the rest are TKOs, and most of those TKOs were his opponent on the ropes not really hurt while Joe shoe shinned on them. In the 40s they wouldnt have been stopped

Joe in his prime isnt feather fisted but he was never a big puncher

 

The Langford of 1907 easily made 168. In fact, if he fought today he would be 160 to 168. He only moved up because no one would fight him and went for the money against bigger men. I don't think we can over rate Langford. I see no other fighter comparable.

 

No shame at all. in the loss to Johnson. I think we can all agree that Johnson does the same or more to Calzaghe.

Regarding Ketchell, I dont like to think he was under wraps, certainly without stronger evidence than what exists. But either way, i dont really think it matters. I am fairly confident that Langford was a better fighter than Langford and would have beaten him in a rematch. Did Langford come in at the middleweight limit for this fight?

My query though, and it is a little guesswork with his weights, but i do question Langford's proven power at middleweight. In fact, I must say his record at middleweight puzzles me a little. He was far more successful at heavyweight than he was at middleweight, in terms of KO ing his opponent. What is it that suddenly seemed to click in Langford in 1908. Can a fighter suddenly get experienced and find his power in a year? Much is made of Jack Johnson learning plenty from Choynski, but surely something had to click for Sam in 1908. Was it a complete style change where he suddenly sat down on his punches? Did he suddenly start to train full time? Or was it simply that he went up in weight, and he didnt have the same power at the lighter weight that was middleweight? If it was a the third (and i have no evidence of the other two) then Calzaghe must be a very live underdog in this fight.