Bernard Hopkins or Carlos Monzon

Hopkins.

You can argue Monzon was a greater middlweight but Hopkins had more sucessful defences and won the light heavyweight title as well.

 

Monzon because imo he beat the better opposition.

 

Hopkins overall but Monzon is about equal as far as middleweights all time.

 

Without cheating Monzon
With cheating hopkins

 

hopkins, by far as a career as a whole. middleweight reigns are close but the edge PROBABLY goes to monzon. beating brisco and valdes were big achievements (especially valdes twice) and the griffith wins are icing on the cakes. however, other than those, there isn't too much to his resume. still, it's enough to edge hopkins but overall, with the work hopkins did past middle he definitely passes monzon

 

Monzon fought in a better era and fought better opposition than taylor as well as the fact he is not a cheat so it has to be
CARLOS MONZON

 

what's this cheating stuff about?

 

Carlos Monzon.

 

Monzon of course.

Another issue... look at WHERE he fought. Amazing and not something that happens these days. When Hopkins went abroad once he lost. That is what happens when you go abraod you loose all the fights that are even remotely close.

Monzon is a unique fighter and surely top 10 ATG.

 

whoa whoa. top 10 at middle sure. BUT looking at his competition it's tough to justify how awesome he was, especially when you brought up going abroad. Monzon had been plagued with rumours of home cooking and Argentenian decisions, most notably the first Briscoe fight. The second Griffith fight, when Emile was WAY past his best, could arguably have been scored the other way. And it's not a difficult argument.

Monzon's reign was good but not great; his resume had the feel of close, hometown decisions and though he took on some great fighters, it doesn't reek of greatness.

 

:huh

 

you have to go with HOPKINS based on his wars / defenses against Morrade Hakkar, Keith Homes, William Joppy and Carl The Squirell Daniels, Willam Bo James and Steve Frank. ...and who else would face the dangerous Robert Allen 3 times??? and he beat the baddest welter weights out there in DLH, Trinidad and Simon Brown.

 

I dont really feel what Nard did past middleweight closes the gulf between them in their middleweight reigns..which is what really defined both.

Though what Pavlik goes on to do will have some impact on that...Im to confident he will be at the top for a very long time though.

When I think about it..its fairly close.

 

The 2nd Griffith fight wasnt even in Argentina.

The first Briscoe fight sounds controversial...however dont think just because it was a draw in Carlos' hometown that it necessarily means it should have went to Bennie.
Ive heard several accounts say that Monzon edged it but because of the scoring system at the time in Argentina very close fights were always declared draws..no matter who they should have went to.

For the most part Carlos dominated everyone put in front of him...some of them very, very good fighters..And he travelled the world doing it. He only had like 3 or 4 defences of his title at home and as far as I can recall they were all essentially free of controversey.