Lennox Lewis was not an ATG

Actually, I have no problem with the facts. I dont deny the fact that Tyson was rated highly by The Ring.

But ratings are there to be scrutinized, surely ? Dont we all have a right to give our opinion on ratings ? Or a right to give our own ratings ?

I see people on this forum ripping holes in ALL-TIME ratings all the time, esp. those published in magazines, but there's some sort of misconception that the current month-by-month Ring ratings need to be respected. I think that's crap. They've always been subjective at best, and rigged and biased at worst.

 

The point i was responding to is that the guy said it was just my opinion that Tyson ranked in the top2 for consecutive years going in, while it was a fact.


That is all.

 

Ok, admittedly I was digressing from the topic.

 

Thanks, likewise. There was no tougher fights than the Holyfield fights. I dont think Bowe went into those fights thinking they were going to be easy nights. I do think Rock Newman combined with Lennox Lewis' big mouth made it easier to convince Bowe he didnt need to fight Lewis.
Bowe was a tough guy, I think he felt cheated in the olympics because the fight was stopped early, and Im 100% sure he feels bad about not fighting Lewis. There was two times they were very close to fighting, but derailed by Mcall and Golota. I guess it wasnt meant to be.

 

Do you feel Rock Newman was good for Bowe or bad for Bowe, on the whole?

 

I didn't word it clearly, I said it's your opinion to say I need enlightenment, not about his Ring ranking.

My original statement which you deviated from was the recent ESB poll, I never mentioned Ring rankings.

 

Rock Newman's mistake was not so much the avoidance of Lennox Lewis, but taking on Evander Holyfield again.

I think Newman would have been stupid to put Bowe in with Lewis straight after the first Holyfield fight. One or two easy fights was shrewd and reasonable, IMO.

In truth, I think he was holding out for the return of Tyson. That would have made good sense. I dont think he was thinking "never" in regards to a Lewis fight, in fact I think after Lewis's performance against Bruno they really fancied Bowe's chances, and expected Holyfield to be easy money second time around. Lewis's stock was highest straight after the Ruddock fight, and dipped a bit with his next three fights, but it made no sense for Newman to put Bowe in with Lewis straight away.

 

Infact here's the original convo. No mention of Ring rankings, which is a bunch of names in a hat. The 2002 Rings top 80 should show people Ring has no clue.

 

I like that response, but don't you think Rock should have had a better grip on Bowe as a character, keeping him busy as opposed to the world tour and letting Bowe's carnal instincts take over? Bowe always struck me as a child to Newman's "daddy"...and I believe Rock should have moved Bowe with more discretion given his knowledge of Bowe as an individual.

 

Rock Newman was horrible for Bowe. Eddie Futch was begged by Bowe to train him. Futch knowing Bowe's work ethic wanted no part of him. Finally he was convinced. After winning the title, Futch warned Newman on several occasions to keep Bowe fit in the gym. Newman paraded him around the world saying the world needs to know the heavyweight champion.
Bowe became an excellent fighter under Futch, and I believe Futch felt he was his brightest pupil ever, but after winning the title Bowe went downhill quick.
I think Newman made a lot of money for Bowe, but I dont think Newman was some great matchmaker or great boxing manager (hes never managed anyone else really). Bowe with Futch would have gotten to the top anyway. Bowe without Newman might have cemented a better legacy, but I think ultimately his laziness would have always held him back from his full potential. Some guys have to work harder to maintain their skills, and I dont think Bowe ever had it in him to do it. Futch was a trainer of greats, he would have made the fights to not only enhance Bowe's legacy, but his own as a trainer of great fighters.
Thats what makes a guy like Bernard Hopkins so special in my opinion. Boxing training is tough and monotonous, and theres not too many guys that take the sport as serious as they should, especially after they cash their first 10 million dollar paycheck.

 

:huh

 

Yeah, in that regard Newman wasn't capable of doing best for Bowe.

But really, any manager can only do so much to keep a fighter on the right path, in regards to weight and training discipline. And however badly managed you are, keeping fit and serious is possible and necessary, all good fighters should never forget that. Bowe was a world champion and a former Olympian and had the best trainer in the world, if he lost his discipline there's not much to be done.

As far as all that rioting and thuggish stuff goes though, I thought Bowe and Newman totally lacking in class. I dont think that in itself affected his abilities as a fighter though.

 

I also think like most managers they wanted to capitalize on the championship a little with two easy fights, nothing wrong with that, although most on this board seem to think so. Not so sure about the Tyson angle though, as Tyson wasnt going to get out until April of 95.

 

There aren't many heavyweight champions I can think of who went straight from a tough title winning fight to taking on a challenger of the quality and form of Lennox Lewis (in the wake of the Ruddock win) for first defense. So they criticism of Bowe seems to be using an imaginary ideal standard that seems unrealistically high to me.

Tyson and the mega-money he represented was certainly on the mind of Newman, IMO. Bowe was 25 years old and I'm sure Newman figured he could remain champion for the next 3-5 years, as did many fans and writers, as did Eddie Futch.
So whatever they might "lose" if they never faced Lewis was nothing to what they could gain with an easier run towards the inevitable return of Tyson.

 

You're right.