What constitutes a journeyman?

None of those are journeymen (although Lacy is beginning to near that point), and I detest the term "hasbeen". It's just plain disrespectful.


A journeyman is a fighter with a mediocre record (generally between 30 and 70% win ratio), capable of giving tests to up and coming fighters but is clearly of limited ability.

 

Have Bag will Travel ! i think that used to be the motto of Tom "the Bomb" Bethea who in his later career traveled the world as a high class test peice he upset Nino Benvenuti in italy sadly for Tom, in a Non Title Fight, still it earned him a return title fight payday, he lost with Nino now having full respect for Tom, Tom also went over to the UK to Upset British Camp Mark Rowe.

Carlos Marks seemed to be another Middle from that time usually being used to get prospects some educational rounds under their belts

 

Hard to say. Recently I watched Yousef Al Hamadi, someone with a 4-8-1 record. This looks like the record of a typical journeyman, however he was very good and I thought he clearly deserved the win, but didn't get it. Sometimes looking at a boxers record and giving them a label is unfair, you should watch them first.

 

There was a good article on journeymen in a recent issue of Ring magazine. One of the things it asserted was that there are several levels of journeymen. You've got guys like Woods - although I'm not sure he qualifies yet - who were at the top, but have slipped into what might be termed "gatekeeper" status. Then you've got solid guys who can test a pro and maybe score an upset now and again - here I'm thinking about somebody like Everett "Bigfoot" Martin, Jesse Ferguson or Maurice Harris. And then there are guys who are just basically career losers, who show up to pad the records of prospects or champs on the comeback trail, but still can provide a test or "yardstick" of where a young fighter is at. Even below this you might put tomato cans, who don't even really try, but show up to fall over and collect a paycheck.

 

A traveling opponent type, not supposed to win, but to give a prospect some rounds.2 steps above a stiff or a tomato can, 1 step above a trial horse.

 

Maybe we could define it like this-a guy who is not really a contender, isn't thought to be good enough to actually become a champion, but still good enough to fight against top level guys? I don't know, maybe something like that.

 

In the building industry, newly trained craftsmen that are still gaining experience in their trade are called journeymen. The term applies to up and coming boxers as well.

 

Well, several things. I'll give one example

Take a short bus ride, man

:hey

 

The guys you mentioned are "gatekeepers" or on the verge of being "gatekeeprs". Woods becomes a "gatekeeper" if he loses to Cloud.

Journeymen are guys who take on prospects in 4,6 and maybe 8 rounders.

Here are some British journeymen. If you look through their records you'll see they've faced most of the top domestic guys around their weight.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=201&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15019&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=396104&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=31221&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14843&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=375620&cat=boxer

 

I think that was me who posted that. A journeyman for me is a guy chucked in to fight a rising prospect and is expected to test them but lose. The fact this is for a world title belt and Woods is a former champ means he is a class above that. Hes had some good wins but is now fading, with his record I wouldnt consider him a journeyman.

 

No it doesn't. Just because it means something in one field doesn't mean it means the same thing in another. In legal terms you are an "infant" until you reach 18. You can't say well the term applies to teenagers too.

 

Thats not right. I would consider up and coming boxers prospects not journeymen. Journeymen in boxing have been around the block and have built up a large but unspectacular record

 

You guys are right about the way the term is used in boxing. I went and looked up the official definition:

–noun, plural -men. 1.a person who has served an apprenticeship at a trade or handicraft and is certified to work at it assisting or under another person.2.any experienced, competent but routine worker or performer.3.a person hired to do work for another, usually for a day at a time.

Origin:
1425–75; late ME journeman, equiv. to journee a day's work (see

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In boxing, definitions #2 and #3 are more appropriate.

 

I agree. Good definition.