Holyfield tyson 1 intresting

I always find my faith in other human beings intelligence waning when I hear things like this.

You have eyes, and somehow they're missed the grostesque damage Rahman picked up from Holyfield's butt, Tyson's vaginaesque eyebrow cut, and the double your pleasure double your fun low blow/headbutting Dokes.

Not to mention ****ing biting someone in the AM's.

You are ridiculous. Analyze the existing evidence next time before opening your mouth.

 

Reality.

I've always respected your honesty even though you're so involved in the actual game.

I find it hilarious that fans, so detached with such a birds eye view of it all still can't make educated decisions and prefer wallowing in being ignorant and biased.

 

Point taken:good i've defended margo & he's been hung out 2 dry, I recall a Tommy Morrison interview where he stated that all Heavyweights are juiced up as they have too be:smoke

 

Morrison's viewpoint seems reasonable. I think testosterone and steroids have been fairly widespread in heavyweight boxing since at least the 1970s. People think of steroids as part of a "new school" of training methods, but they're not really at all. They are just pills and injections, and boxers have been doing pills and injections for decades. Thing is, no one really thought anything of it until the late 80s, when "drugs in sport" and "unfair advantage" and "drugs scandals" became news issues. And then drugs testing and a hysterical moral panic became the norm.

 

This is a ridiculous post. If you are a Christian, then your "argument" matches the common line of "God exists and my faith is enough to disprove any scientific theory you put in front of me". You don't answer any real questions, just "laugh them off".

1. Holyfield is a dirty fighter. Everyone who knows anything about boxing will confirm this fact. Check the statistics on low blows by Holyfield (if they exist). Ask an unbias boxing afficianado. Watrch Tyson's recent movie, the headbutts are slow-moed. Yes the editing of the movie is bias but you can see the butts occurred.
2. If you headbutt someone, they get hurt, but you don't, that is the point. If you use the back /top of your head on someone's chin / face, who will come out worse for wear?
3. The final argument you use is called "poisoning the well" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well) and is illogical. It is where you try to disprove the other's argument by producing some irrelevant issue about the person making the statement.

Wake up, Holyfield was on steroids, was a dirty fighter and was also a good fighter.

 

It's not hard at all to doubt the word of Holyfield.

First he strongly denied the accusations, and then later says "I might've unknowingly taken a drug that was steroids that was for hormonal problems but I can't remember the doctor's name".

Then later he says "I heard Mike Tyson took steroids, it doesn't mean he did, but someone told me that Tyson took them and I should do it also, but I said no."

 

Manny Steward has said similar things. He didn't like the weight-lifting that Holyfield did and also commented on how was talking to Vargas one time and Vargas kept talking about his new conditioning program. Manny was like "it's better to just spar rounds than to jump over logs and stuff".

Holyfield's health issues could've been anything. It was reported though that he was asked about HGH use after the first Moorer fight by doctors. He just said no and they left it at that. The NSAC doesn't test for it.

 

Although we'll probably never know, i'm not sure how reasonable Morrison's statement that everyone uses, is. See, the thing is, a roid user will always say that, even if only to justify his own use. "Everyone is doing it, i'm just keeping up". Maybe it's true, maybe it's just in his mind.


To make a bit of a weird analogy, i used to play a computer game called Starcraft, in which you can use a certain hack that gives you a huge, unfair advantage over your opponent. At a certain moment, they found a way to expose those using that hack, and guess what ALL hackers had in common? They were always the first to blame others of cheating and they said "everyone" did it..... right.

Now, again, it's well possible that every single heavyweight since the 70's has been on steroids and certainly the growth in size attests to this, although better nutrition and health care may also be factors. But my point is that Morrisons statement here might not mean all that much.

 

Yeah, I take Morrison's statement with a pinch of salt, but some of his suspicions are way more plausible than the people who think roid use is restricted in the heavyweight division to himself and guys called Evander !

On the same track as you mention (great analogy, BTW), I remember Razor Ruddock insisting Tyson take a drugs test, and if you track Razor's change in physique, increases in lean muscle weight and increases in power over his career up to that point he is, in fact, - using the same standards people use for Holyfield - one of the main suspects.

Vitali Klitschko and Frans Botha have failed drugs tests for steroids, as has James Toney TWICE. These are just a few of the guys who got caught in the heavyweight division. Ex-Soviet countries have great history of knowledge of performance-enhancing drugs, it would be naive that that hasn't been transferred to their excellence at professional heavyweight boxing too.

 

I think illegal PED use has been pretty commonplace in sports, not just boxing, for quite a long time.

It may sound cynical but I don't believe in this "I'm gonna play fair" mindset being dominant in the high levels of opposition.

Even if it's a minority of them using, it's still probably a big enough minority that would make most of us unhappy if we could ever somehow found it the exact numbers.

 

It is obvious to me that are having trouble understanding what I am trying to say. Of course, I see because I am a Christian, you automatically think I'm ignorant. I am basing this on your assumption in the first paragraph above.

1. Holyfield is not a dirty fighter. He fights tough inside and keeps his head low when he comes in to protect himself. Tyson comes and generates power moving forward. Holyfield keeps his chin tucked and doesn't give ground. That is not an intentional headbutt. That is boxing.

While I'm sure he landed some low blows here and there in his career, show me someone who hans't accidentally done that: it is a rarity. I have never seen Holyfield intentionally throw a low blow. It's funny to me how "dirty" the fighter is to you who had his own ear bitten TWICE and OFF and DID NOTHING IN RETALITATION but say "Put my mouth piece back in--I'm going to knock him out".

2. So now Holyfield consistently headbutt's people in the face? And chin? Really? Show me.

3. Wow. Your scientific research led you to wikipedia. Nice work.

As for me laughing you off, it is funny to me how logical and scientific you profess yourself to be yet you are clearly full of emotion about the man.

I do not believe Holyfield was on steroids. I have not seen proof of that, only an article written by someone who wanted to sell magazines. Of course, I realize the possibility that I am wrong and he did. I would be disappointed, but I am not going to assume he did based on the lack of evidence.

That wouldn't be very scientific of me...

 

I'm not sure I understand how this means I can't take him at his word?

 

According to Morrison, he doesn't have HIV:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

With Tyson v. Holyfield heads were bound to clash because of the styles. Tyson came off worse becasuse Holyfield fought a smarter fight in every area, including positioning his head to protect himself and deflect and inflict the damage. He gets branded a "dirty fighter", so be it. He's only a dirty fighter in the same way Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali were dirty fighters.
Tyson's angry and resentful because it was usually him getting the advantages in cases of heads clashing.
In fact immediately after the first fight Tyson said, "He butted me but I was probably butting him too, he's just a great fighter."

 

I don't think Holyfield was an especially dirty fighter, certainly no more so than his peers. Blame the ref if someone continually transgresses the rules and gets away with it.

The steroid accusations? My gut instinct says yes, I'm afraid. But again, I don't think he was doing something the others weren't either. Unfortunately in sports it's so rife these days, my feeling is that you'd be hard-pressed to find a top athlete who doesn't use something.

That doesn't make it right though...