Do you love Muhammad Ali? If so why so and if not why not?

Outspoken
Charismatic
Stood by what he beleived in
I like his confidence as well.

Great footwork
Great speed
Great durability

 

thats part of the appeal to Ali aint it?

every woman loved him

 

he was what he despised a racist.
he made stupid statements about frazier for which even frazier`s children suffered
was dumb enough to let other racists tell him what to say and then look smug and try to convince everybody how clever he was

great fighter though,but as a human being at times let himself down

 

Actually, I think I know the answer to this.
People dont really care about the substance of the man, what he's really saying, they care about THE IMAGE.

And of course, Muhammad Ali was the man with the loud mouth boasts, full of bravado and the ability to back it all up, he can beat any man in the world, and he has rhymes and poems, he dances like a butterfly and stings like a bee, and he's a handsome devil too. Who wouldn't want him on their side ?

So, when he upset the establishment by joining the NOI, or by changing his name, or by refusing to be conscripted, I guess that's where a lot of anti-establishment people made him into something they wanted, regardless of what he was really about. And over time he's gone down as that something.

 

Apart from him being a great fighter, another good point is he was very funny at times. Sometimes just silly and tediously childish, but I defy anyone to watch a lot of his footage without cracking a smile or laughing out loud.

 

First of all I don't anyone should hate any fighter. That always beffudles me when people hate celebrities or stars and athletes. Dislike or get annoyed is one thing but hate... that's far too strong and you might to have to check yourself if someone on your TV is actually bothering you that much.

I love Ali. As a man he had his flaws. But really, I dislike those negatives and flaws just as much as I dislike the over-reaction revisionist history. You know those Thrilla documentaries that take one part of history and spin it upside down and that give it a nice big slant.

And for the guy questioning what he did for his people and how he was inspirational... woah. atsch

Ali has far more positives if you perceive and embrace the great things he did. Don't get carried away. He isn't the messiah nor is he perfect. However, if you take some of the things within context (Radical black Muslim) and understand the man (The entertainer, etc) then you should only have a positive outlook on the man. For the things that are truly important, he was sensational. In what he did, what he stood for, etc.

I don't think as popular as the man as that most understand him. I think a lot of people believed he had more hate than he did. He was manipulated by the nation of islam but by his own omission through action switched to the more traditional practice later in his life. The 60's/70's were a much later time. The only thing that should bother you is the why the other fighters Ali treated could get perceived... or the way Ali gets portrayed in say the film about him. You have to understand the POV's that refer/retell about the man, though. Things about him hating Joe Frazier... it never happened. But people forget the context, and sometimes people surprisingly don't quite understand this popular figure. If anything, he hated the image of what Joe Frazier represented. As he did with MANY BLACK man (Actors who he criticized for dating white women and this and that, etc).

I don't see how you can't love Ali.

 

Which ones?

He may have been racially prejudiced against whites (obviously collectively not individually), but he was no racist. Blacks had no institutional power then (they still don't). He was an afrocentrist. Nothing racist about that. It's an anti-colonial political philosophy. It's anti-racist.

Cheating on wives and so forth is something a great many people do. I could care less what a man does with another consenting adult. It has no bearing on the man as the athlete.

He was rough on Frazier, but was selling tickets. Ali said what came to mind about everybody. Frazier should understand that.

The Ali legend makes it easier to have a real discussion about the 1970s heavyweights because we know so much about all of them.

Ali's talking was a way to convince himself, not get into an opponents head. Ali's ritual was to make himself believe he was invincible.

 

You have a subtle underlining dislike for Ali. It carries in your post especially when Frazer gets mentioned. You go on about quotes for some obviously slanted book about what Ali said. Neither nor proven nor factual evidence yet you take the revisionism as if it's the obvious reality just to form an opinion outside the popular norm. If there's something I dislike, it's that.

But really. A womanizer? Every HW champion was. If he wasn't, he would be one of the exceptions in HW history. It was a weakness for all them. But who are we to criticize without being in that position. So much easier from our desktops. Seriously though, it's the big Islam/Muslim thing that lets you give flack for it because it's hypocritical of him. Unless I have percieved that laugh as not being sarcasm. Either way you mentioning something like this out of the blue when it's a criticism you could have of any HW is percular.

 

Another thing about the greatness of Ali


He probably gets at least half of us into boxing. No? The guy is a legend and face deserves to be the cover of anything boxing. He really helped it as it helped him be the figure he wanted to (He used boxing as a platform to do what he did).

Someone brought up how he was no Malcom X or Martin Luther King because he was by the nut Elijia Muhammad. First of all, all those man even the beloved King have ghosts in their closests. Most are FAR WORSE than revisionism against Ali.

 

Yeah, I love him (surprise), but it's complicated.

It's correct that his significance as a political figure is greatly overrated. He spewed a lot of garbage Black Muslim doctrine like some brain washed idiot and even his stand on Vietnam is probably very oversimplified. Probably he just didn't wanted to go more than anything else. Not that I blame him.

On a personal level, his acting toward Malcolm X was even worse than his acting toward Frazier (which was way short of honourable as it was). He was also a weak hypocrite who publically slapped his first wife for wearing to short skirts, but on the same time was just as public with his adultery.

Thirdly, there is his boxing. It's kind of paradoxical that I fell for a style like his when my big football favourite is Barcelona's Xavi. A guy who isn't particularily athletic (small and slow), but more than makes up for it with his perfect technique, vision and ability to read the game. I don't have nearly as much time to spare for athletic marvels like C. Ronaldo or Gerrard.

So what is it? Is it just something that got on my brain when I was young and impressable and who has stuck there?

That would be the easy answer, but I still can't get enough of watching the guy. His way to create his own rules, even his own universe, inside and outside the ring. I still think Mailer put it best: "They (other authorities and luminaries of boxing) are skilled engineers at Indy 600, but he (Ali) is on his way to the moon."

He transcended so many of the concepts we usually use to judge a man and a fighter.

Yes, he acted deplorably in some ways and said deplorable things, but there are so many examples of spontaneous acts of kindness from his side. When all was said and done he really seemed to love his fellow man, and that's not always easy.

Yes, he had flaws as a fighter, but he had an understanding for the craft (both intuitive and intellectually) that probably equals Mozart's or Bach's for music. Watch the rematch against Quarrry and tell me that that's a guy that solely depends on his speed and his will. For me, theres no doubt that there's a master at work in there.

In short, he brought a special kind of magic to proceeding and he was magical himself as well. There's an element about him that suggests something beyond the material and the mundane in a way. There's a very special form of drama over his career and his life, like it was a script written just for him where the rules were allowed to be bent now and then not to get in the way of a great story. It's just plain weird actually, and in this case I'm all for the weird.

 

He said many things that went way beyond that.

I'll quote from Thomas Hauser's book, p.188

"No intelligent black man or black man in his or her right mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters to produce little pale half-white green-eyed blond-headed Negroes. And no intelligent white man or white woman wants black boys and black girls coming around their white sons and daughters and in return introducing their grandchildren as little mixed-up kinky-headed half-black ni*ggers"
Muhammad Ali

That's pure racism. Pure old-fashioned racism.

 

No it's not . He's just stating his opinion one at that time wasn't particular unpopular. If segregation and racism wasn't obvious and so blatant, why would a comment about it from either side of the race be racist? It's observationally true to a very generalized extent.

Man, why do people not have the ability to understand a simple idea of how things are much difference in the context of things. That statement is only bad in 2008.

It's like if Ali said that "No one wants a n*gger running for president let alone living next door to them." in 1966 when black people were still being lynched/killed & discriminated against. It's not racist but just obvious. Maybe not the best way to handle it.

One of the things I appreciate and liked the most was Ali's understanding of peoples perspective and beliefs. As a Muslim man he understood how people thought differently. It's rather mature of him to say that he can't be "Too mad at people who disliked him for not going to Vietnam because that's what they thought was right at the time. But now popular has opinion has changed to see that I was doing what I thought was right." As we see Ali can understand the context and perspectives well there. It seems quite paradoxical when comparing quotes to him earlier when he talks about the black way of doing things and this and that. Truthfully, he was very wise when he opened up his mind and matured as he got older. He was still just a young black kid in his 20's seeing the world mistreat his own kind. At that time, how would you have handled it? Be honest, much easier to knock on your computer.

 

I do actually like the man, just not the favouritism and allowances he received during his time and still today.

 

Yes

The man was a born entertainer, great to watch inside the ring with his speed & ability.... also his antics & interviews, the guy was always excellent viewing.

Even tho some might not agree with some things he did or some aspects of his life, it completely amazes me that their are some that flat out dont like him, absolute ******ation on their part :-(

Im off to read the other posts now, this should be fun.

 

There is this revisionist history like with all revisionist history. People end up feeling like the truth has been exposed and that Ali is a lie just like Santa Clause why. The truth is people just love having an opinion outside the norm. The man is a legend. And just like with all figures/legends/athletes, etc you should embrace their good qualities while not harping over their bad ones. I can trip all of you up about the truth of any of your heroes. I guarantee it.

From Columbus to MLK to FDR to JFK. None of them were perfect.