Do you love Muhammad Ali? If so why so and if not why not?

I feel Ali persona in boxing transcended the sport of boxing, he was a brilliant showman as he could talk the talk and he could walk the walk, he was picking rounds when he would finish opponents... If he didn't KO/TKO the opponent he would have a witty remark to why he didn't KO/TKO an opponent...

You look at other boxers and promoters, how they try and hype a fight, I believe Muhammed Ali layed the ground work for boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stOFhQAZZ_o

Here's Antonio Tarver trading insults which is sorta similar to Ali with the whole pretty as a girl thing.

You also have the likes of Ricardo Mayorga, James Toney and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Ali stood up for principles what he believed in with the Vietnam war and for continuing to be a practicing member of the Nation of Islam. Unfortunately it stopped him boxing and he probably lost his peak years.

Whilst racism is wrong, at the time the word was a much more segregated place at that time, times have changed when B-Hop said he wouldn't get beat by a white guy, alot of people called B-Hop a racist or when Mundine said I would never get beat by a Christian.

As documented on the 1st page of this thread Ali had personal problems, like a normal human person, this does not make him a bad person (unless your his ex wife/s)

I have read Ali's book withe Thomas Hauser and its a good read, tells alot about his personal life and how he got started in the Nation of Islam

 

Thats pretty harsh considering he provided us with the rumble in the jungle and the thrilla in manilla in the seventies. I did prefer him in the sixties though, he was amazing, an athletic phenomenon. You have to admire the way he adapted when he came back though, he had to learn to fight on the inside and take a punch and did so magnificantly. Should have called it a day after the thrilla in manilla though, his career started getting a bit ridiculous after that.

 

What have I been uninformed about? Where have I been incorrect? What can you dispute? Nothing in this thread... clear that I'm informed though. Doesn't mean I have to go citing like a lunatic to prove my worth

Get over that one Frazier-Ali thread moment. After that, this whole baloney hysteria that I don't know what I'm talking about is false. You haven't disputed ONE thing I've said in this thread as being factually incorrect. Yet you suggest I'm not citing enough. You have to do the work if you have a problem with something I've said that you believe to not be true. What contradicts what? If you don't answer. You're trolling and I'll just put you on my ignore list.

atsch I'm not a cite freak like you. Nobody else is for the majority unless it reporting articles on old fights. My theory is simply observation. Of course you're overly sensitive and defensive you can't take it. Deal with it.

The accounts of what others think about Ali is an opinion. What Ali did is an in absolute terms a fact. You been talking about knowing what he and she said. We all know what Ali did/said/stands for since it's all right there.

You truly are an idiot. Where did you go to school? Your comprehension skills are for ****. On ESB we are tough on Dempsey. In general, though, Americans seem to love Dempsey (The Bert Sugar, experts, etc). He ranks much higher for them then he ever does/will on ESB. This is no coincidence. I never said Europeans have a less valid opinion. Where do you come up with this ****? It's just a different perspective, one with a bit less understanding for the 1900's race related American climate. 2/3 of his harshest critics are non-Americans. I would say that Americans comprise at least 50% of the Classic section (An estimate). So, therefore you agree with me... or agree it's a coincidence.

You have poor comprehension skills. It's as simple as that.

Still won't get over it. My opinion on Ali is better than yours because I understand the dynamics and culture of the 60's in America better than you do. This is why Chinx agreed with me on the emphasis of context. You act like a just say **** for the fun of it when you can't admit that I have valid and truthful assessments of things.

HOLY ****. Folks, he can't comprehend for ****. If you're going to go on unrelated tangents that don't respond to what I'm getting at then I'm done with this. You either suck at comprehending or I'm just so terribly at writing/getting my point across. Maybe it's a combination, but I think I put the share of blame on you.

Not sure what the full quote was. I think I was getting at you can't just say it's unjustifiable when not having been in his mind/thoughts while dealing with racial injustices and such.

Ali's mind & situation--------------------------------- McGrain's Mind and situation

Point well taken! :good

 

Indeed :good

Like most things it's not 100%. But I think if there was a poll with Americans rating the best HW and non-Americans (Europeans) that Dempsey would do noticeably better in the American one. Old Fogey is a very honest poster. I think most of Dempsey die-hard fans on ESB are American, I would suspect. Truth is I don't know all of the posters as there location isn't mentioned. However, from what I've seen I think there is a link (It's nothing major).

Exactly. Really, Europeans would check Dempsey in check whatever the subject comes if Americans were ever lenient on him. The difference isn't major, but he seems to make quite a bit of most peoples top 10 rankings. Less of a case with non-Americans I think. It would be interesting to actually conduct an entire poll on it though but from observation I've noticed this.

I don't know. There are plenty of very IQ smart people that could be manipulated. I'm not sure if his ability to get used makes him not very smart. In fact, I think a part of that may be street smart related. It's not like scientists don't get constantly ripped off from (Within discoveries, papers, inventions due to be tricked).

Well said. Although I do think part of the third fights popular is the fact that Ali won. I do think it's a better or more popular fight. More action-packed and both fighters were at a point where they would get to each other more.

Willis is strangely highly ignored. He's most known for being the #1 contender that Dempsey avoided from 7 years. While Sam Langford is looked at highly. This was a time when Jack Johnson held the thrown. Another black man that's highly ranked but doesn't steal the shadow away from Langford's achievement (Though he did a lot in a lot of divisions). Willis was in the shadow of a white man. Dempsey who was America's first superstar and hero. According to Bert Sugar, "Babe Ruth was jealous of him!" Dempsey gets revered, Willis ignored.

 

I think there is some correlation. I bet a poll would have Americans on this site ranking him higher. Not to mention all the boxing experts and Bert Sugar's that revere him and place him in the top 3. Also the Cox's of the worlds too.

 

Was a teenager when Ali was in his prime. The hype even amongst non-fight-fans was huge, and Ali was THE king!

Ali bomaye!, Ali bomaye!, Ali bomaye!

Saw the 14th round of Ali v Frazier III again last night - Ali, though battered and tired, was just on fire!

 

I totally agree with this post. Another thing,when other fighters tried to imitate Ali's 'pretty as a girl' thing,they just sounded stupid. Another reason why Muhammad was unique. He did all that stuff brilliantly.

 

Yeah,that fight showed Muhammad's toughness,if anyone still needed to be convinced of it.

 

Ali was a great fighter but during his era every non-boxing fan was his fan and a lot of them thought he could walk on water...and Fly....He was great against the big slow heavys but had trouble with the pressure fighter and swarmers. I think he was a great personality but some of his fans are out of touch with reality

 

To be fair he didn't face the aforementioned pressure fighters and swarmers at his absolute peak. We never seen his peak, really. He was just hitting it when exiled.

One of these swarmers was utterly great, and the other just incredibly effective vs boxers. Louis, Marciano, et al all had their drama's with different styles. On a shallow level one could say Louis coudn't handle boxers per his Conn fight. Marciano had some big problems too vs certain fighters. They are human, it happens.

 

Oh exactly and that is my point, a lot of Ali fans put him above human...all of the great had there weaknesses. In regard to him fighting pressure fighter after his prime, if you are in the opinion that he was a better fighter before his 3 yr exile then I would have to say there were no Fraziers or Nortons or Bonevena's around at that point the closest was Jones and Cooper as far as puting on pressure. Ali had the toughest opposition on his return IMO and I am not sure the pre-exile version was a strong but thats just my opinion.