On Jim Jeffries 75th birthday he was interviewed by Fleischer

Thats a pretty cheap shot M ,considering youv'e never fought in a ring what would you know about bag weights?

Don't talk about things of which you have only experienced second hand.

 

I think Adam will do a fine job. All of his books to date have been winners.

I don't want to offer a preview of what is and what will not be included in the book. That is his choise.

I gave him a few tips, and my hunch is he's not going to spend a lot of time or money fishing for " new " data that may or may not be there.

For example much of Jeffries early career is un-documented with some " reproted " wins. Jeffries matches in Europe as champions are also hazy.

 

First off you missed the joke. JK = just kidding. As I said before I have been in the ring. I know plenty about bag work and bag weights.

For example, uppercutting a heavy bag is not easy, which is why there are horizontal bags specifically for the uppercut. One should not stand too close to the double end bag as it can bounce back and strike you. The double end bag is used for coordination, and in my opinion is 2x as valuable as the speed bag. When holding a heavy bag for a partner, keep your hands away from he bag as they can be hit. Such observations are for those who have been in gyms and are familiar with the equipment. Is that enough for you McVey, or do I need to scan in the last gym receipt for you to read? Geez. I'd hope you find better things to do with your time.

 

"If you make a statement, particularly one as sweeping as Mendoza's, the burden of proof is on you to substantiate it."

???????????----that is what I said.

 

"You do realize that if everyone here questioned every part of boxing's written history, much of what is written would come into question."

This does seem logical. In fact, a tautology.

But it begs the issue. It was boxing's written history that Munroe knocked Jeffries down. Was that true? It was boxing's written history, by Dempsey himself, that he was knocked down four times by Fireman Jim Flynn before the towel was thrown in. Was that true? Are we just mindlessly supposed to repeat errors from the past simply because they are now "boxing's written history".

"If you disagree, the onus is on you to provide information. Otherwise, what has been passed down is correct more often than not."

Actually, if we don't check the information that is passed down, how do we know if it is accurate or not?



By the way, I have no dog in the hunt. Jeffries may well have done everything he is said to have done, but I would like proof. My take is that most top men in major sports, such as Johnson and Dempsey as well as Jeffries in boxing, or Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb in baseball, were top athletes. There is no question that Wagner and Cobb could run fast and jump high. Wagner must have been agile to play shortstop. The best athletes in those days probably were playing the established sports, where the money and fame was, rather than the at the time secondary sports such as track and field, or the new Olympics.

 

Excellent! I hope your friend agrees.

It's strange--but true--that watching training clips can often change posters' opinions of past fighters for the better. It's one thing to hear that Foreman was a monster puncher and to see the knockouts, but it really changes your perspective to see (and hear!) him clobbering the heavy bag before Zaire.

Jeffries' sparring clip opened a lot of eyes on the Classic forum. Maybe the bagwork will do the same. :good

 

Old Fogey,

Here's a thing to ponder. Who says Jeffries track records were not true? No one. However Jeffries camp disagreement wholeheartedly that Munroe floored him in the exhibition match. See the difference? Its huge.

When you have two different stories, one of them is wrong. However, when the same story is reported over and over with no objections, the odds are it is correct. This is the best scientific way to look at it.

Unfortunately there is not a concrete source for every part of boxing history....the oral history has to be good enough, especially when there were no objections. If someone wants to be the first to object on a given, I think that person has to come forward with something besides show me the video / news paper.

In the case of the track stuff, I think Two Fisted Jeff written in the 1920's mentions it.

 

When you have two different stories ,they cannot both be right,but they CAN both be wrong.

Two Fisted Jeff ,written by Hugh Fullerton is ****, it is a highly subjective tome of hero worship ,including the excuse that Jeffries was" got at with drugged tea " before the Johnson fight which Jeffries was persuaded to put his name to.
Heres the thing . Who says Jeffries records were true?

 

I think people are clutching at straws when they are pointing to workout footage to back up claims of greatness in old-timers fighters, and it's actually an insult/patronizing to the fighters in question.
Ok, I can understand some sparring footage being relevant when the action rivals suggests a serious competitive session of boxing. But bag work and routine exercising or somewhat "playful" sparring footage leaves us none the wiser to the fighter's abilities in the ring.

 

Sorry, O F, my mistake :good

 

Just glancing at this old thread and one thing stands out.

Jeffries could not possibly have won 2 gold medals, as Mendoza suggested here at one stage. Jim Corbett is well documented to have raced and defeated Jeffries in a 100m beach sprint. therefore, at best he would have picked up a silver behind Corbett!

And also, the main reason for the bump, Mendoza, did the Jeffries Ryan sparring clip ever turn up on youtube or elsewhere?

 

This content is protected

 

Thank you for the article.....Jeffries was remarkable

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/128583618?searchTerm=harold%20hardwick&searchLimits=

Just thought i would post this. It is interesting that Boxer Harold Hardwicke would have been right in the mix for a spot on the Australian Title in or around 1912 when australia won a silver medal at the olympics. If he was up there, why wouldnt jeffries be?

Actually, according to Wikipedia, Harold Hardwicke did win an olympic Gold medal!