Larry Holmes speaks out about George Foreman ~ Listen In

great to see someone who was around at the time...I saw it the same way....funny thing but the same guys that slam Dempsey for not fighting Wills rate Holmes in there top 3....I may have rated him higher but he avoided too many of the top guys in his era and fought a lot of novice fighters with 10 fights. Holmes never rematched a hard fight and he never unified. In fact he gave up a title not to fight Page. Hard for me to rate him so high even I thought he was very good

 

Lawrence Holmes is great................ I think he'd beat George Foreman by a decision or late round TKO either back in '76 or 1999....... Peace....

MR.BILL

 

It's rather remarkable people have this much faith in an old Holmes that relies on mobility, quickness, and reflects. Foreman has a the raw power and is built like a tank. A much fighter smarter and a much better managed fighter. The way Foreman out-boxed Briggs shows me that he could have easily done away with Holmes in 1999. Most likely Holmes having little to stand on gets dropped, and then probably knocked out.

 

I think George Foreman aged a little better than Larry Holmes did. If Holmes and Foreman would have fought in 1992, I think Larry would have won. But by 1999, I think Foreman probably would have won. Foreman may even have had better stamina by that point. Larry didn't hit hard enough to discourage George, and Larry didn't throw the types of combinations by that point that would have really bothered George. Foreman, to me, looked really good against Savarese and Briggs, and even though those guys weren't top fighters, they were at least a big step up from being total journeymen; they had size and some skill. Holmes looked lethargic and devoid of any punching power against Nielsen, Harris, and even Navarre and Donaldson; Holmes struggled against those guys. I think Foreman had more left in the tank!

 

I think Larry gets way too much credit for his jab as an older fighter. Truthfully, his jab, even against guys like Mercer and Holyfield, was pretty much a non-factor. Later in his comeback, his jab seemed more push than punch. The only fight where Holmes really seemed to have a good jab was against Oliver McCall; he was ramming his jab in that fight. But Foreman showed much more consistency with his. And Holmes wasn't all that fast late in his comeback; he was faster than George, but he wasn't that much faster.

 

This is the last time I listen to Holmes!!!!! c

Every time the guy opens his big mouth I lose a ton of respect for him.


Foreman ducking Holmes? Not likely. No more evidence than Holmes' trash talk :fire

Foreman aged way better than Larry and was in a more competitive shape. Had the fight happened, it would have been a close affair but I think that Foreman would have had a slight advantage in stamina and toughness.

 

I would still rate him quite high. He's not the only champ to avoid challengers.

What gets me is that some people defend him now, and Holmes tends to portray himself as someone who ducked no one, BUT during the time (and anyone can go check newspapers, magazines etc. from that time) Holmes was very OPEN about his right to avoid the toughest challengers, certainly in the last 2-3 years of his reign. He paid his dues and wanted easy fights, that's what he said. He openly ducked Page and Thomas, and the only reason he took on tough fights like Witherspoon and Williams was because no one had any idea that those guys were that good !
To be fair, he was willing to fight Gerrie Coetzee in 1984, but only for $10, $15 million or more, and I think he priced a rematch with Cooney at $25 million ! He even joked about hoping Lorenzo Zanon comes back because that's the kind of opponent he was looking for.

 

Oh yes ! That old chestnut ! Drugged In Africa by Agatha Christie. I detect a bit of tongue-in-cheek on this post,but it's incredible,that after 35 years,there are some who still think that Foreman was,indeed drugged. He got beaten by a Muhammad Ali who totally confused and exhausted him. Ali's punches doped him. Nothing else did.

 

The list does not come close to the actual facts. Yes Holmes picked and choose post Cooney but let's keep in mind his opposition was talented but inconsistant and highly unmotivated for the most part. If any of them became a huge , publicly demanded challenger and a big money fight, Larry, who always was about big money, would have fought them ...

Berbick was defeated by Holmes.

Dokes was given a gift draw against Weaver and was destroyed by Coetzee.

Weaver was stopped in a round by Dokes and again in a round by Bonecrusher in addition to losing to Holmes by KO.

Page lost to Berbick, Witherspoon and Bey and often entered the ring in need of a gridle and bra.

Witherspoon wasa defeated by Holmes and lost to Thomas and Smith and also fought like a fat slop.

Thomas was defeated by Berbick and looked quite listless after.

Coetzee was beaten by Tate, crushed by Weaver and Page.

No one was built up by consistent huge wins and captured the publics imagination. Of course this was a summary of over a few years but it does prove my point. It was a talented but indistinguished, underachieving lot. In addition it is important to note from late 1979 to 1882 Holmes was truly focused on two, huge money superfights, Ali and Cooney.

To compare him like Dempsey ducking Wills who was his number one contender his entire reign, who remained undefeated and who had fought and defeated much better opposition is simply wrong. Dempsey's ducking of both Wills and Greb forever mark him as an asterisk of champions. I have been critical of the Marciano nuthuggers here many times but one thing , among many, I say positive about Rocky was that he fought EVERYONE. That is to his huge credit.

 

There's a scene in the film Rocky Balboa when the eponymous character says something about having some stuff left in the basement. This could almost apply to Larry Holmes.

 

People gotta realize that Holmes was no longer training seriously after his narrow points loss to McCall in 1995............ Holmes would never again see 236 pounds in the ring..... Christ, Holmes fought James "Lazy Bones" Smith in the summer of '99 on PPV and Holmes was 250 pounds........ Of course Smith looked like a soft slob at 275 pounds with saggy tits, but Holmes was bloated rather well himself........ Point is, I think Holmes was training well for Foreman in late 1998, but then stopped when he found out the promotion for the fight in Texas had gone to hell when a backer pulled out......

I love Ol' Holmes, but he was gross at 254 for "Bean" in 2002........ Still, all in all, Holmes got the job done............

Holmes beats Foreman in 1999..........

MR.BILL

 

Anybody who judges Larry Holmes with criticism based on how he passed-up dudes like "Page & Thomas" in 1983 thru 1985 are fools....... The money wasn't right for Holmes and after the smoked had cleared it was obvious by 1986 that dudes like "Page & Thomas" were really not all that great anyway......... Holmes proved his greatness...

MR.BILL

 

Holmes was struggling with Brian Nielsen and Maurice Harris at the time.

 

I read Nielsen got some home cooking treatment over Holmes in Europe.... Who really knows??

I have Holmes against Moses Harris on tape from '97. Holmes was a slob and in poor shape, while Harris was spry and ran like a rabbit.... Harris was respectful of Holmes... I still gave Holmes the nod based on his pressure and willingness to mix-it-up.......

NO WAY is my other man Foreman quicker and more spry than Mo Harris was in 1997........

I thought Foreman looked good technically against Briggs in 1997, but I was not happy with Foreman's soft 260 pounds........ Plus, Briggs fought scared.... Briggs ran his ass away from Foreman....... It's easy to look good / great when your opponent is scared shitless of getting tagged.......

MR.BILL:deal

 

Holmes was great, and I wouldn't judge him particularly negatively for it, but it's a point of fact that he avoided guys who figured to be tough challenges in the later years of his reign. He did so openly, to his credit.
And judging how he scraped past Witherspoon in May '83 and Williams 2 years later, it's conceivable that his reign might have been a year or two shorter had he been promptly facing the best available challengers .

It's no big deal to me though, because most the heavyweight champs have done similar things at times.