if pattersons chin was like ali's ???

suppose floyd's chin wasn't a glass one ?? but a real good one like ali's..
would that bring him into the top of heavyweights ATG ?? he was one of the fastest heavyweights there ever *****...

 

He'd be mike Tyson (if you discount the "intangibles").

 

Floyd would be a whole lot better. I believe Floyd's passiveness and lack of killer instinct was contributed by the fact he got dropped and hurt so many times. He never was this killer finisher but he was far different and better earlier on. Compare Floyd of the late 50's to late 60's/early 70's to see his style change of going from this boxer/puncher to more of a conservative boxer. I don't know how history would've changed but he would be a far better boxer... he had a lot going for him.

 

excactly my thinking also. i believe that if his chin was great (what would have led to more selfconfidence and far less defeates) floyd would be a truly great one.

 

.... Then he would still have been thrashed by Liston and Ali. He may have survived a bit longer against Liston, but it's the way in which Liston was able to land his huge artillery. Nobody can take that... why do you think Ali was running all the time during his bout against him?

He may have been able to avoid his loss to Johansson though, but even that is not a given. Machen, who by all means has a near-iron jaw, was destroyed in one round by the same man. Ali wasn't so durable because of his (admittedly, excellent) chin, but also because he knew like no other how to survive and minimize the damage.

In fact, outside of the first Johansson fight, i don't think his career would've been much different win/loss-wise. Which goes to show you how overrated the concept of "chin" really is, because Floyd is arguably the least durable of all HW champions.

 

Prety much.

His record would be the same but people simply wouldn't talk about how bad his chin was.

 

Liston would have still beaten him just taken longer. As long as Floyd fights that type of fight that he did against Sonny he would lose every time a granite chin wouldn’t change that. By the time he fought Ali he was past his best it wasn't his chin maybe he would have been more aggressive against Quarry and Ellis and got those decision (I felt he beat Ellis anyway). So in his prime possibly only the Johannson result would be different but then he wouldn’t be the first man to regain the title which adds a lot to his legacy.

Floyd almost always got up so his chin didn't hinder him too much. The only difference would be many would think had Rocky stuck around Floyd would be the man to beat due to his speed and now great chin.

 

That's the answer i reckon. Tyson is probably a bit mroe skilled whereas Floyd had the speed edge i'd say. but good answer.

 

Good point :good

What sometimes is forgotten on this "what if?" scenario for Patterson, is that Patterson's shortcomings were further aggravatted by the fact that he faced top opposition.

Against guys like Liston, Ali, etc. an "improved" chin probably is not going to help a lot.

 

.... just like Norton, another victim of the infamous "glass chin sindrome"

 

Patterson had a weak chin. He was put down often even when he was more conservative.

I think a better chin Patterson convincingly beats Quarry and Ellis and doesn't get robbed. I also think he destroys (Not just losses to) Ingo and there is no need for a trilogy. Liston probably gets him, though.

The Ali fights would be far closer than people think. Floyd gets inside so much better and easier. Ali said Floyd was the most skilled boxer he ever faced. Imagine if he was any where near the durable of a Frazier. His power isn't at that level but with his speed and skills he could've made for a heck of a fight... in my opinion.

Chin is in no way overrated... it has crippled fighters and make or break fights that would've happened differently had the fighter been more durable.

 

Floyd wasn't big, in fact he never weighed 200 pounds during his career. He was a LHW basically that fought at HW for money.

When you're at HW and undersized, chances are you're going to struggle taking shots from the world's hardest hitters unless you are a freak. Patterson wasn't physically strong enough, that was most of the reason he was down so often. Patterson could of had the best chin in the world but Liston simply walked him down and was blasting him around the ring with every shot. His frame wasn't enough to take shots from legit, hard hitting HW's.

Patterson had very good recuperative abilities, however. That is worth a lot.

 

Oh man, that would be amazing!

 

If he had a great chin maybe he beats Liston. There's no way of knowing. But if he was able to walk through a few of those punches that got him, he's in a position to land a few more of his own. Patterson was a very good puncher in his own right. Liston had a great chin too but he could be rocked.
Obviously, even with an enhanced chin, Patterson still cant match Liston for brute strength, not even close. But he's got way more speed in his punches, meaning he can - in theory - land at a higher rate. And they are both power-punchers, but both (now) have great chins. I think it evens the fight up quite a lot.

No greater fighter has everything, as far as "god-given" talents go (eg. chin, punch, speed etc.), and I'd work on the theory that if any of the greats has one of their "weaknesses" replaced by its equivalent "strength", he'd be truly phenomenal. Ironically, some of the guys who - in the real world - seem to have it all in those departments often dont learn or know how to fight, they lack the intangibles, prone to laziness, just lack that certain "X" factor.