Kid Norfolk ... Forgotten All Time Great ...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Sep 2, 2009.


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  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It's interesting as we all rave about Greb we tend to bypass his bouts with Kid Norkolk, a light heavyweight that basically gave him all he could handle on the two occassions they fought. Bitterly contested bouts. The Kid was another fighter screwed by the color line. He was terrific and I barely hear him mentioned here.

    Much is made of how Greb beat on heavyweights but little mentioned is how hard and close his match ups with this light heavyweight were. In addition, Tunney clearly wanted no part of him.

    Finally, what does it say about Langford that old Sam was able to lay Norfolk out like he did?
     
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think the first Norfolk fight sounds like a beauty, but it does follow the pattern of your traditional Greb match up in that Greb loses the first round against a bigger, ATG offensive machine, reacts violently to take the second, the aggression costs him in the third (Greb was ditched) but he keeps the pressure on until Kid Norfolk starts to tire, and goes onto dominate the second half of the fight almost entirely.

    So Norfolk, though great, was firmly brought into line by Greb on that occasion, though the fight was tough.


    As for Langford, yeah, what can you say? It was four years before Norfolk was stopped again.
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
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  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It was a hell of a lot more competitive than that. In addition, in the second bout Greb was losing. Norfolk also had Greb on the floor. The fights were wars and Greb had his hands 100% full.
     
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
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  4. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    In the first fight Greb was outweighed by about twenty pounds and still managed to close the show by pummeling a near defenseless Norfolk unmercifully in a corner. In the second bout Greb was at the height of his partying and was so out of shape that the newspapers made mention of how fat he was. They also mentioned that Norfolk was easily as guilty of dirty fighting and could have been DQd himself.

    How was Tunney clearly avoiding Norfolk? Gibbons clearly avoided Norfolk for years, there was lot of talk about matching them in the teens and early twenties but Gibbons wanted no part of it. When they finally did meet Gibbons handed Norfolk his ass. Ive never heard of a Norfolk-Tunney match being called for.
     
    klompton, Sep 2, 2009
    klompton, Sep 2, 2009
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I didn't say it wasn't competitive. As I pointed out, the fight was tough, and Greb hit the deck.

    What I said was, it follows traditional Greb patterns, it was Greb's fight, and it appears that it does. As to Greb being behind when the second fight was controversially stopped, he was behind after 6 in the first one, too, and what I have has Greb winning the first 4 in the second fight. The only thing i've ever seen that described Greb as being behind was notes on boxrec.
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
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  6. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected


    This content is protected
     
    TheGreatA, Sep 2, 2009
    TheGreatA, Sep 2, 2009
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  7. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    I used to have a quick forty or fifty second clip of Norfolk sparring for one of his fights with Tiger Flowers (didn't show Flowers though), looked like a beast.
     
    Manassa, Sep 2, 2009
    Manassa, Sep 2, 2009
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  8. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was a true great he was actually getting compared to Langford early in his career. His resume is top class. I heard there is footage of him which match I'm not sure, would love to see it though.
     
    Minotauro, Sep 2, 2009
    Minotauro, Sep 2, 2009
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  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Look Greb may have been so out of shape or may not have been but no one gave him wars of life and death like Norfolk. I've read conflicting reports over how exhausted he was at the end of the first bout but all state the fights were give and take through out.

    As far as Tunney goes, he was a leading light heavyweight for years and never fought Norfolk, a top contender, why ?
     
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
    he grant, Sep 2, 2009
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  10. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Lots of leading light heavyweights never fought each other. That doesnt mean Tunney ducked him. What would be the selling point for fighting Norfolk? What did he gain? What did Norfolk bring to the table? Dont forget that as great as Norfolk was, at every stage of his career just when he was reaching a status where he could demand matches he would invariably lose and sometimes embarrassingly which would knock him back down the ladder and force him to build himself up. Was he a great fighter? Yes, but greatness exists in the vacuum of hindsight that the politics and economics of the sport dont.

    What conflicting reports have you read? Ive read the first person accounts of people at ringside, not agenda-ridden fairytales of Kevin Smith et al.

    As for your ascertion that Norfolk was the only fighter to give Greb a tough fight: Come on HE, I know you well enough to know you know better. Greb was even up with O'Dowd, both Gibbons brothers, and had tough fights with others. Norfolk was not the only guy who gave Greb a rough way to go and Greb beat plenty of guys who either beat Norfolk or gave HIM a rough way to go. Im not trying to diminish Norfolk's credit (although I think hes mildly overrated today) but I think he gets a lot more mileage out of his fights with a smaller guy in Greb than would if he had say gone even up with Packey McFarland...
     
    klompton, Sep 2, 2009
    klompton, Sep 2, 2009
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  11. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why would you just assume, "Tunney clearly wanted no part of him" just from that, though? You could just as well ask, "Norfolk was a leading LHW for years and never fought Tunney, why?"
     
    My2Sense, Sep 2, 2009
    My2Sense, Sep 2, 2009
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The second one was regarded as the roughest fight ever seen in the ring at that time by some, saying something!

    The first one, though I agree that Greb had his hands full, I don't think it was as close as all of that...I think it's likely that Greb won 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, though I can't remember for sure off the top of my head - I'll check. That's not close, that's a closed out fight, even if the rounds are close, which they were.
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anyone got a pick for Tunney-Norfolk?
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    #13
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I read that some paper gave Norfolk a shade in the first fight.
     
    mattdonnellon, Sep 2, 2009
    mattdonnellon, Sep 2, 2009
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If you remember more details matt, i'd be interested.
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2009
    #15
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