175 lb 1st Round-Harold Johnson vs Matthew Saad Muhammed

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Sep 5, 2009.


  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    12 rounds, will Johnson manage to deal with Saad's agression? Can Saad force his will on a man that fought much bigger guys?
     
  2. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    my apologies to muhammed, who had one of the biggest hearts and biggest rights in boxing history but johnson picks him apart. even at his best matthew saad could be outboxed for long periods and needed the right to bring it back. i see johnson dominating with superior technique, keeping him at the distance with the jab, working through muhammed's punches at ranges, and outlanding him throughout. there is no knockout and no knockdowns but the fight is a 10-2 UD for johnson.
     
  3. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I pick Johnson as well, but i do think on his night it is winnable for Saad. When he's getting furious though, even with his handspeed, he would walk into scoring hard shots from Harold, who would kee it simple but be able to hit his hittable target enough to take the decision, close fight though.
     
  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    With all due respect and admiration to that warrior of warriors, Matthew Saad Muhamad, there would be no way he could beat Harold Johnson. This would be a boxing clinic from the first round, with the eventual winner being Harold Johnson by a wide unanimous 12 round decision. Johnson would cooly and clinically outbox, out jab and out think poor Saad all night.
     
  5. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Johnson admitted that he was suspectible to getting caught at times. Saad Muhammad would stay in there looking to catch him for the entire twelve round distance.

    Harold was by far the better boxer however and unlike many of Matthew's opponents, he would not go after him and in the process punch himself out at Saad Muhammad's iron chin but instead would rather outpoint him from a safe distance. Saad Muhammad would have to stage his greatest late round rally to defeat Harold Johnson who I'd favour to win on points.
     
  6. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    If this fight were scheduled for fifteen I would pick Saad by late KO/TKO, he carried his power with him late in every fight and his endless stamina allowed him to keep throwing punches in bunches even in the later rounds.

    While his opponents slowed down as a bout progressed Saad often seemed to fight at an even higher pace in the later rounds, maybe because he was a slow starter this conserved some of his energy for late in fights.

    But I think that in reality its not really a case of Saad increasing his punch output as much as it is the other guy getting more tired thus less mobile and thus more hittable allowing Saad to get in punching range and start tossing leather freely and for prolonged stretches of time.

    Saad was a very dangerous fighter for this reason and is why I consider him to be one of the best late round fighters in history, when the chips were on the line you can always count on a peak Miracle Matt to go for broke if behind on the cards and having the stamina to keep up the pressure.

    But since we are talking about a twelve round bout I do think Harold can win enough of the early to mid rounds before Saad is warmed up to the task to go the distance and withstand Matthew`s inevitable rally in the later rounds. Harold would have to be very careful later on because even though he can and will land plenty of leather on Matt due to him leaving himself so open his inhuman ability to absord punishment and keep comind on strong might just unravel Harold mentally and lead him to getting caught by a homerun hail mary punch.

    Matt wasn`t a bad boxer himself though, actually he was a very, very good and skilled boxer-puncher with an excellent jab and terrific right hand down the pipe in his early days, that version of Saad would hold his own with Harold in the boxing dprt should he choose to fight that way, he wouldn`t be outclassed at all and if he lands a counter or sneaky right cross that gets thru Harolds guard like the one he got flattened by vs Billy Smith in two its gonna be Curtains for Johnson because even if he beats the count Matt would swarm all over him and flatten him in short order.

    Now with all that said though I`m gonna go against the grain and pick Saad by late TKO anyways. I`ll say a final round referee stoppage after having dropped Johnson twice with less than a minute left with Harold unable to beat the count after the second KD, doesn`t get any more Saad-like than that for a finish does it? They didn`t call him Miracle Matthew for nothing now after all did they?

    Saad KO12 Johnson
     
  7. Wu-Gambino

    Wu-Gambino ESB Swordsman Full Member

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    Unless Matt lands one of those big right hands against Harold like Oakland Billy Smith or Moore, Johnson should outbox him rather comfortably to a UD. Just a higher level technical boxer.
     
  8. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    saad is left feeling frustrated after 12 rounds of boxing where he was unable to land his bombs and drops a ud to johnson who wins by staying on the out-side
     
  9. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No true, Johnson could get careless like he did against Billy Smith and Saad could send in one of his big haymakers and possibly end it. If nothing else, Saad could muther-effing punch.

    Having said that, if Johnson keeps his defense tight and stays consistent like he did against Doug Jones, he should be able to tattoo Saad with punches all night long and win a wide decision, and perhaps even late stoppage.
     
  10. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Although an underrated boxer in his own right Saad is outboxed in this one but keeps coming forward. In desperation he pours it on in the last 2 rounds but Johnson is too skilful to be drawn into a war. I think Saad would have made this closer over 15 but at 12 he is disadvantaged. From the 3rd round onwards evey round is closely fought and the scorecards don't reflect the story of the fight. Johnson 9-3.
     
  11. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    In these hypothetical matches we always have, which this forum thrives on, isn't it a given that we're matching these guys at their best..and not some out of shape, unfocused, halfassed version of these fighters? Could it not be said that Saad could be outboxed like he was against Eddie Mustafa Muhammad?
     
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    As always, good post:good

    Ummm, I'm split into two camps.

    Johnson had a great jab, employed good lateral movement and was strong on the inside (could tie up well and throw deceptively fast combinations) These things spell disaster for Saad, as they sound a good way to negate his iron chin and late rounds workrate; i.e DON'T TRY AND STOP HIM-BOX HIM!

    However, as others have pointed out, Johnson could be hurt. Although the only time I've seen him stopped is against Archie Moore (quite late on in his career by the looks of it) I do not believe Saad had the power of Moore. A big puncher yes, but not in the same league as Moore, who I hold in the highest regard in that respect.

    Also, when you consider Johnson took Satterfields best, he was hardly 'china chinned' (excuse the expression)

    So it's down to whether Saad can rally late? Nope, not IMO, as he wins a cagey first few rounds by boxing.

    Johnson re-adjusts and starts tagging Saad with counters from angles created by good movement. Then the typical tumultuous middle rounds start for Saad, and Johnson starts hitting him hard. However, I don't believe Johnson was a 'massive' puncher and Saad is very sturdy, so I say he survives, and makes his late round surge around the tenth. A few close rounds in a close fight, the final 3 could've went either way but Saad wins an unlikely decision 7-5.
     
  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Harold Johnson on a unanimous 12 round decision without ever getting involved. I could see Harold dropping Saad but not following up. He was such a gifted boxer, but moreso a tactitician and would not leave his game plan. I see this fight maybe even on the dull side, because Harold would not stray knowing Saad's explosiveness.

    Scartissue
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    I see exactly what you mean. I just feel a lot of opponents found it easy to get drawn in once they had stunned Saad and forced him back to the ropes. That's when Saad can truly open up, when he has his opponent in front of him. Another thing is that Saad was very good at pressing a fight and I don't believe Johnson can just dictate the pace as easily as others have suggested (though of course it IS possible, he was a seriously good at implementing a gameplan)

    Interesting match-up nonetheless, picking out of a hat (or in my case, a cup) brings up some interesting fights.

    No doubt my personal fave is yet to come (Tunney vs Spinks) as I will wait for these to fizzle out before I post the next 1st Round fights as not to swamp the board:good
     
  15. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I was thinking about Tunney-Spinks recently actually, i'll wait for te thread.