If Sonny Liston fought in the 1990's ....

Interesting, does that mean we would have missed all those fat heavyweight leaning contests....Yes the Heavyweight diviision is the only one that has no weight limit and it has hurt the division

 

The thing is,if we're transplating Liston into the 90's,he would probably be bigger proportionately. No doubt weighing around 225-230 lbs.

 

You're about 3 pages late on that topic. We've already been through the whole " if he was fighting now, he'd weigh XYZ, etc "

 

For me Sonny's peak was around 59/60 and ,no, he didn't seem slow then.

 

i really don't think too highly on anyone and when i do , correct me.
you are wrong in everything you wrote even about holyfield who could be and was stopped as you should know and probably do.
ike ibeabuchi , darroll wilson , lennox lewis did not stop tua , why could sonny ? and why do you think tua wouldn't land his bomb (sonny short enough for him) and put him to sleep just like moorer , ruiz and wilson.
how would he KO mccall ? mccall faced BIG guys like akiwande , lewis , tucker and wasn't stopped (i don't consider his crack breakdown a stoppage for that matter). also bruno and yanqui diaz were big and strong and didn't stop him.
liston was smaller of the above , maybe except wilson.
KOind patterson a supermiddleweight who wanted to be the heavyweight champion of the world is not such a proof for power.
i agree liston was a hard and dangerous puncher , but don't exaggerate.
with tua everything could happen except liston koing tua.
it ranges from tua ko1 liston (wilson,ruiz,moorer) to liston ud12 (draw/robbery) tua (ibeabuchi).
just not liston stopping tua.

 

Liston today would be similar build to Rahman IMO except maybe 10lbs less, esp in the legs where he has quite skinny legs and a big barrell chest, not dissimilar styles too except prime Sonny may have been a bit faster and probably a better close-in fighter.
Both guys have the long strong jabs.

Hard to rate the old heavyweights vs modern because cant find much footage of them punching up, most of their opposition was cruiserweights or light heavyweights, they didnt have to cope with the enormously strong (but also well-schooled) superheavyweights of today. Any 6'4+ guys they fought were bums or not very good so I havent seen Sonny Listons high overhand right which is the punch to KO Lennox Lewis. Or a leaping hook which he is too slow footed for.

 

Marciano arguebably lost to Tiger Ted Lowry at 25 years old. Whats your point? Liston was extremley green at the time, and the decision was very controversial. In case you didnt know, Marshall was a ring magazine top 10 contender. Name me a heavyweight champion who took on a ring magazine top 10 man in his 7th pro fight! In case you didnt hear, he beat the bejesus out of Marshall 2 times shortly afterward.

But they would certainly not annihilate Liston. In Fact, I pick Liston to beat all of them.

So in essence your agreeing Liston would streamroll through these guys much like he did against patterson, machen, folley, williams, valdez, dejohn.

Liston proved he did could defeat top men of all sizes. Holyfield and Tyson would be no bigger than he. Nor Lennox or Bowe would enjoy any reach advantage, and certainly not a power advantage.

 

Oh, I forgot to add. I see Liston as undisputed champion. On Listons best night, I do not see anyone of the 1990s beating him.

 

To be honestwith you, even if Liston was 210 lbs I think he would have to tools to take apart any of the top fighters of the 90s on a given night.

The package that Liston brought to the table was exceptional. He really had verry few weakneses as a fighter from a technical standpoint.

The issue now as in his own era would be how long he could retain his focus for.

 

I've been thinking about this a lot over the past day or so, and frankly with all due respect to every all time great that ever lived, the early 90's would have been a treachurous time for any great man to get through....

Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson were all historically great fighters in their primes, yet not a single one them got past maybe 1994 without a loss. In fact, if a 1967 Muhammad Ali at the peak of his powers were fighting sometime between 1990-1994, I would certainly pick him to be the best of the bunch, but I can't help but think that he'd suffer at least one defeat along the way.

Taking a look at some of the names who I think were either at or near the top of the division in mid to late 1991..

Not necessarily going by any official rating system.

1991
-Evander Holyfield
-Mike Tyson
-Razor Ruddock
-George Foreman
-Riddick Bowe
-Lennox Lewis
-Ray mercer
-Tim Witherspoon
-Tony Tucker
-Michael Moorer

Of the above mentioned names, something like 8 of them held either the lineal title or an alphabet fragment at one time or another, and some of them were even repeat champions. The vast majority were larger men with good athleticism, reasonable skill, power, durability and used their size well. Some of them even went on to fighting well into old age, and about 5 or 6 of them are considered all time greats by most. Now granted, a few were past their best by 1991, but still very active and competitive.

I mean can anyone really see ANY all time great going through that treachurous list without a single loss of some sort?

 

Michael Moorer sucked at heavyweight IMO, he always looked a like a KO waiting to happen, Tua was badass in the late 90s also

 

One can only hope!

If you think about it though, the dominant world heavyweight champion has always influenced the direction of the sport.

If you start with say, Joe Louis, he pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the old time stance and the length of his dominance meant the next generation were all emulating the joe Louis stance. Rocky Marciano, who was known to be in brilliant shape for every fight and the next generation tried to emulate him, and pretty much were in great shape. Then came Ali. A heavyweight dancer who liked to showboat and float. The next generation emulated Ali. Then Tyson, the fearsome killer with devasting KO power. His impact was so great that not only did the next generation try to emulate him by pumping iron and trying to get that same KO power. Next was Lennox Lewis, with the Straight punching and clinching, utilising size and reach advantage, and a clinch to nullify and protect from the KO punch. I think that we see most boxers (and promoters) prefer this talent.

Vlad is the prime example, as it has helped his career when he switched to these tactics, and since he seems the next champion, it looks like it will be some time before someone tries to stop emulating this style.

What boxing really needs at the moment is for a small fighter to come through and absolutely dominate Vlad on points or by late KO (not come from behind) and then go on to have a decent reign. That is the only way that the present trend will be reversed.

And being honest, i dont really see how that is going to happen at the moment. The only decent smaller fighters campaining at heavyweight, simply dont seem to be all that good at the moment. It would be good if it was David Haye but surely most see that as unlikely. I think the hugging will continue for quite a while yet.

 

Obviously, I was being very tongue in cheek. I still would have to favor Liston over all of them though.

-Tyson was great at slipping the jab and scoring from midrange, but so was the quicker Patterson. Think Iron Mike can absorb more punishment but the end result is the same. Bowe doesn't bring anything Big Cat couldn't, durable big man with fast hands, deep arsenal, and huge power.. still can't take the fight to Liston. Only real wildcard is Holyfield and Lewis. Though he could stick and move sometimes, Holyfield would run into the same problems he did against Bowe, can't win the outside or the inside consistently and end up taking too much punishment. Steward era Lewis won't take the fight to a big puncher like Liston, he'll fight behind his reach and smother him on the inside..but I don't think he can pull an Ali as crafty and mobile as he was for a big man. He also never fought a full fight on the back paddle, often dropping his hands and getting suckered into exchanges..something he can do against Holyfield or the lethargic short armed Tua but I fear Liston will make quick work of such a situation.

Great fighters just all wrong for Liston but how knows, bigger upsets have happened. Now Ruddock, Moorer, Morrison, McCall, and Golota..give me a break.

Yes, losing twice to "The Greatest" is absolutely shameful. That should define his career, not his incredible performances and victories.

Lol, at the second comment: Your right though, Liston don't know nothing about being a true "G" growing up in South Central. Not sure what that has to do with boxing.

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