??Dariusz Michalczewski??

DM was the Champ and MAN...he didnt have to chase anything.

Hey neither you nor me coined the term Reluctant Roy but it's there for a reason.

 

The difference is Griffin beat Toney in Toney's prime, at a weight James did not have problems making.

The rest of those fights you named fighters that were way past it or shot to bits...

 

Ok Axe,then if Jones was shot to bits against Johnson and Tarver,then on what basis could DM have beaten Jones?I mean 24 year old Jones beat 29 year old Bernard Hopkins,who,in my opinion,was also better than anyone that DM fought?

 

Interestingly put,because many were saying that Virgil never wanted to leave the Dakotas.And I didn't realize that Virgil was such a hard puncher and better than b-Hop or Toney.

 

I'm not saying that Virgil is better than B-Hop or Toney.... but he does have a significantly different style.

But there seems to be an anachronistic trend with viewing Hopkins career.
The Hopkins we see today (or let say starting with Trinidad) is not how Hopkins was viewed then.
Let's remember one thing.... Hopkins became a salient premise in large part because of the theatrics surrounding his fight that was days removed from 9/11. Hopkins was certainly playing up the part. And from there Hopkins took it and ran.
Even his fight with Hakkar was turned into something it never really was.
This was around the time that US-France relations were very strained. This fight was exploiting that aspect as well.

So you go from Trinidad to Oscar to two close fights with Taylor (the momentum is building) blowouts over Tarver a win over Wright and a blowout over Pavlik. But all of this is well before Jones fight Virgil Hill.
At the earliest you could say Hill was looking for Jones around 96-97 (maybe earlier)... no one in their right mind at that time would be saying, "pfft.... Jones ain't avoiding Hill.... HELL! He beat Bernard Hopkins"

No one would be saying that, because no one was viewing Hopkins as an ATG around that time.

Again, it's anachronistic to claim otherwise.

 

Yeah Roy beat the very undefeated and untouchable Toney...

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Tiberi also beats DM.

Like i said Clinton your logic just doesnt work.

 

It is foolish to point to Tarver and Johnson as proof of what someone could have done to Jones in Roy's prime, as Roy was past it. I have never used this line of reasoning myself.

Similarly, when people bring up the Gonzalez-Michalczewski fight (which was a very close fight), they are talking about a shot Michalczewski.

As to 28 year old Hopkins, he was not the man who strung off 20 defences in a row, not quite. Virgil Hill was a significantly higher calibre fighter than that version of Hopkins, IMO.

 

Polish pummler summed it up pretty well. DM was a very good fighter in his prime, and his resume is decent but not great. HOF yes, ATG no. Excellent jab and body puncher, but he always neglected his defense. DM kept winning his fights when he was faded, but he struggled more and more and took a lot of punishment. Some of his last fights were wars where he was the tougher man and scored late stoppages. He was totally shot when he attempted to come back and he got destroyed by Tiozzo.

Neither Roy or DM wanted to leave their comfort zone and fight each other. They're both equally guilty, and it's a shame that fight never happened. I guess Roy would have won a decision against DM, but an upset stoppage victory by a prime DM wouldn't have been unthinkable either.

Graciano Roccighiani got screwed when they first fought, Rocci was winning that fight and DM feinted that he was unable to continue after being hit after a break. This is a black mark on DMs record, however he clearly beat Rocci in the rematch some years later. In my book, Rocci was one of the best german fighters in the 90s, just as good as Maske and better than Ottke. Rocci was very unpopular and underrated.

DMs split decision loss to Julio Cesar Gonzalez, where he lost his WBO belt, is one of very few close fights that were staged in Germany where the hometown fighter wasn't awarded the win. It was indeed a very close fight, and imo DM deserved the nod in that one, even if it was plain to see that he was very faded already. Another example of a close fight in Germany where the outside fighter got the decision is Henri Maske-Virgil Hill I.

 

Check boxrec or the web for his full record.
He was a dual WBO champion at 175 and 190lbs. He beat Hill for the WBA and IBF titles. He was subsequently stripped and remained loyal to the WBO. He was the man at 175lbs and the linear champion.
He was very heavy handed, he could take good fighters out with either hand. Watch his brutal stoppages, I mean clean KO's now. He had better power than the fighters who knocked out RJJ. He was nicknamed the Tiger, because he stalked the opposition down. He should be Hall of Fame, but I don't think he will be remembered as an ATG at lightheavyweight, although he should be in with a shout.

 

Michalczewski faded in the moment he was left by his wife and son. I remember that weekend where she left him for his redlight district escapades, and he had a title defense on that Saturday. He stood there, letting the other guy punch him in the face without even defending himself, for five rounds. Then when he decided he had enough, he started to fight back and almost immediately got the stoppage. He did something similar in all his further fights, letting the other guy pound on him without defending himself a lot, and then stepping up the gas late and win by stoppage. That was clearly a psychological thing of punishing himself for losing contact to his son. He wasn't the same after that, otherwise his prime would have lasted much longer. This kind of self-punishment was something he could obviously not survive in pro boxing at the highest level.

 

He faced a lot of good light heavyweights.

 

That was a bit of a robbery wasn't it, never heard of that before!

 

If your referring to Mormeck, he is French!

 

Agreed.

Jones needed to fight DM to legitimize his reign as LHW champion.

 

Best believe the titles that were strpipped from DM got handed to Jones on a silver platter.

Jones' reign as LHW "champion" is one of the biggest frauds in recent boxing memory...