If Sonny Liston fought in the 1990's ....

It's good to see Liston remains the most over-glorified heavy on this forum. Personally, I think he would struggle with Seldon, Hide and the like. He was great for the 50's/early 60's. He'd be average in the post modern era, where his best assets of size and strength would be matched by the entire top-10.

 

This is exactly right. I mean, you take off the top four guys, and you still have a fairly deep division loaded with fighters that could beat you.
I can't think of another era, and this includes the 70's, where this happens.
Liston isn't dominating this era by any means.

 

Liston 6'0" 212 lbs 84" reach/Williams II 6'3" 215 lbs 80" reach

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO6gqaQ5uC4[/url]


Holyfield 6'2" 205lbs 78" reach/Bowe 6'5" 235 lbs 81" reach

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElB5kiepP5k&feature=related[/url]

 

You guys would seriously favour Liston to be number 1?

Certainly most of you know a lot more than I do on the old timers. When I've seen Liston, I always felt he was a little crude in comparison, but that jab of his was magnificent, like an arm that was way to big for his body.

 

Seldon and Hide were real beasts!


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNwX9_fmKTs[/url]


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0h5AgJMXf8&feature=related[/url]

At least the phantom punch connected on Liston.

 

Very underrated hand speed and defense. Williams is a much stronger man and he surprises Liston with quick combos on the inside that bust his nose and appear to hurt him. However, Liston adjusts and is slipping most of his attacks by the end of the round while not only finding range with his jab but also going to work on the inside with quick short arm combos himself. Liston is a rare fighter that was just as effective on the inside as well as the out...fast mobile fighters that made him go on the chase caused him the most trouble.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbpM99wD2M&feature=related[/url]

 

Liston wouldn't come out undefeated however he will certainly dominate along with Lewis. In many ways the injection of Liston into the 90's does more to simplify things than complicate them.

It's customary to have Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, and Lewis as the 4 top candidates in the category of greatest heavyweight fighter at this time; they did the most work and came out with the best results, but insert Liston into the equation and i feel the breadth between them becomes more apparent.

Tyson accomplished nothing worthy of an all-time-great status during this time. A potential stoppage loss to Liston along with his losses to Holyfield and subsequent knockout against Lewis while past his prime effectively eliminates him from discussion, in my opinion. Tyson earned his ranking in the 80's; he was not a very significant factor in the 90's, in hindsight.

Bowe is a bit of a mystery. He beat Holyfield 2 to 1 but he didn't do anything else. If he were to lose to Liston (and I think this is guaranteed to be the easiest time Liston will have against the 90's top shelf), it would certainly clarify the situation for all of us.

Holyfield would make a fight out of it. He's already pegged as one of the best to fight out of the 90's, commonly top 2 in the era post-Tyson. However, he comes up short here against Sonny and that will only serve to further tarnish his up-and-down career.

The true winners here will be Lewis and Liston, with Lennox being the more long-lived champion lasting up to the new millenium.

 

More weight would be a detriment not an advantage imo .ie Briggs,make Liston even slower.

 

As I've pointed out on another thread,Liston was a big heavyweight in his own era,so proportionately if he was peaking in the 90's he would be bigger than he was inreality. Probably about 230-235 lbs.

 

Agreed,

And frankly I don't really see ANY all time great going through that gauntlet without picking up at least one "L". Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis would have competed honorably, perhaps even established themselves as the best among peers, but dominate? I don't know. As mentioned before, no one including Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Moorer or Holyfield got past the dawn of the 90's without losing at least one fight...

 

A bit like the dawn of the 30s, hey? No one got throught the 30s title holders without losing at least one fight either.
Noone, not Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer or Braddock got through this dawn either. You give Louis any chance of making it through without the L?:good

 

I think that he would have been clear number 1 at some point in the decade.

To understand how Liston works watch him against sombody like Cleavland Williams. Watch what Williams does then look at how Liston anticipates it and reacts to it.

Watch his fights with Floyd Patterson and see how he backs up just enough to keep Patterson constantly in the killing zone without breaking a sweat himself.

When you study footage of him you will see that he is a good long range fighter, a good infighter and he is good in between.

He is a verry complet package. Apart from hand speed he really dosn't have any weakneses.

 

Actually, what about the 1890s, Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Jackson, Sharkey. No one went through that undefeated eigher. Maybe Jeffries had a decent shot though!

Or the 1900s with Jeffries, Hart, Burns, and Johnson, throw in Willard, Langford, Jeanette and McVey into that group noone went through them either.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

If you want to see a lean mean sonny at his fastest best...take a look at him at 204lb rock solid against wayne bethea. He steamrolls bethea in 58 seconds. Wayne was never stopped before or after. It was a massacre. The year was 1958.