Hagler v Leonard 1982

Yeh, it's either of these 2 or both that gets spewed out but never the case that Leonard in 82 new 100 ****in% that he was starring at financial & fistic marketing DOOM in the face at the hands of Hagler & all roads led too HAGLER & no escape & eh, yeh, well my eye needs seeing 2, could be 5 years in the healing

 

i don't think there was anything wrong with leonards chin or his heart for that matter.the fact is when hagler was at his peak he was a monster

 

Leonard wouldnt approach a Hagler fight with the same mindset that he approached the Kalule fight.

As has been said, SRL was very smart, a great analyst... he would know what he could get away with & what he couldnt before even entering a ring vs a man of Hagler`s size & ability, just as he did Kalule.

Marvin is an accumulation puncher & Ray (even at 160 lbs) is far swifter on his feet than MMH, he would give him side to side & in & out combinations, I believe he could build a decent lead vs MMH... there will undoutedly be times were MMH forces him to trade but SRL could trade with the best of them & Hagler aint no Robinson or Hearns as far as punch power goes & Leonard was one of the most durable & gutsiest fighters of any era - thats why I rule out any kind of stoppage win for either fighter (I wont have to explain why MMH wont be KO`d surely)

If things arent going Leonard`s way, he WILL try something new & if that doesnt work, he`ll change again because he has that rare ability.

Leonard was arguably the best ever at changing his style to get the better of an opponent & he was without question a big fight performer... they dont come any bigger than Marvin Hagler & in 1982 we would be seeing the best ever Leonard, the most complete & determined Leonard thus far... Ray was also a championship rds performer in his prime, thats why I dont think an extra 3 rds would be SRLs downfall (especially with 82 being SRLs peak as opposed to 87 were he never came close to being stopped in 12 rds), they might actually be Hagler`s downfall seeing as Leonard is a better adapter than Hagler & will have MMH sussed by the time those all important rds come.

I dont expect anyone to read all that but it kept me busy & its my genuine feeling on a Leonard-Hagler primes fight.

:good

 

In 1982 Marvin was unbeatable. Hell he really won in 87 anyway.

 

:yep

 

I thought Hagler edged it in 1987, and he was significantly better in 1982.

Then again, perhaps Leonard was better in 1982 too. I mean, he was coming off a ridiculous layoff in '87.

I dont think the size difference was ever much. For all his muscle and solidness Hagler wasn't a big-framed middleweight, about the same height and width as Leonard.
I suspect Hagler would have crushed Leonard in '82, because of his sharpness and strength.

 

Perhaps? He was 31 coming off a 3 year lay-off with only one fight in the last 5 years. He was quite a bit past his prime I'd say.

It's funny how everybody talks of Hagler being past his best. He was 3 years older than Leonard, but at least he had stayed active instead of being out partying for the last couple of years.

 

he had his chance in 82 and again in 84 but he waited all the way until 87

What do you think of Ryan's commentary during round 6 "Leonard said Hagler had lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on the slowness of Hagler"?

and you can't really argue his eye kept him out of the sport if he came back to fight another 7 times

 

His eyes obviously kept him out for a while, but he obviously fixed them. Then he had problems with drugs etc as well.

But I can well see that he thought that it was too soon to fight Hagler in 1982. It hasn't happened many times in modern boxing, though, that someone jumps a whole traditional weight class in one leap to fight a dominant champion at the peak of his powers. Don't think Hagler really angled for a fight with Spinks for example. Spinks himself didn't make the leap until Holmes was 35 etc.

It should also be said that he only had one fight after Hearns before he took a 2+ year break. It's not like he had a long window where the only sensible thing was to challenge Hagler.

In any case I don't see what the fuss is about. He was a 31-year old rusty natural WW challenging a 34-year old long reigning MW champ.

 

Didnt really answer the question. Once again, what is your opinion of the quote mentioned by Ryan during the fight?

As for a jump to 147 straight to 160, not quite true. Ray has competed at the championship level in '81 and two years before that weighing in at least 153 for Geraldo. i don't see why Ray can't add less than one additional pound than what he came in even before winning the welterweight title.

Giffith won it at 150

Robinson won it at 150

So Ray could take a couple quick tuneups against some worn out ex contenders and take on Hagler by summer 83. I think this is a very feasible plan the fans wouldve been in favor of.

 

I think he has a point. Leonard had probably seen that Hagler had slowed down and that he had a chance at him.

But that doesn't make it easy. He had himself lost a lot through age and inactivity and Hagler was still the best MW around. It was still one hell of a challenge.

He had fought almost exclusively at WW and never at MW. And Griffith and Robinson never moved up against a guy like a prime Hagler (as he was in '82).

And when should he had moved up? It would have had to be after beating Hearns, instead of fighting Finch. So the idea of his cowardice is based on him not directly going for Hagler after Hearns? What a wuss.

In 1983 he was in temporary retirement. If you don't think that he made up the retina thing just to avoid Hagler. Of course, you're nuts enough to believe that.

No offense, but I bowe out here. This will turn into one endless and pointless debate otherwise.

 

Shouldn't a rusty fighter look rusty?

Leonard din't look rusty at all. He was very fluid in there. His reflexes were sharp. He boxed quite well. He looked as good as he looked in his best fights, even better, in fact. He looked awful in Montreal and Hearns had him looking like he didn't know what to do for most of the fight. At least in the Hagler fight, Leonard looked like he was in control of some of the rounds.

No, I don't buy the rusty thing at all. Leonard was sharp.

 

Exactly.

I think Leonard beats Hagler in their primes all day long, he was a more skilled & complete boxer & THAT is the main factor whether ****s like it or not.