Hagler v Leonard 1982

I think when anyone mentions Leonard being rusty, they are referring to him having not having a single fight in 3 yrs (1 fight in 5+ yrs) & are talking about match practice, ringrust.

OF COURSE he was gonna get in the best shape possible for Hagler, both mentally & physically - this aint Kevin Howard here, its ****in MMH - the fact that he performed as tho he hadnt been away for all these yrs should leave any unbiased person with no choice but to praise Leonard, not try **** on him for achieving one of the greatest wins in boxing history.
Very sad really TBH.

 

leonard did do well but personally dont think he won the fight :good

 

Fair enough, I thought Leonard won 7-5 personally, Marv gave away IMHO 5 of the first 6 rds (Marv winning rd 5) & Ray fought more than well enough to retain his lead in the 2nd half.

:good

 

Now here's the rub of the matter, Leonard would go into this fight as a slight & popular favorite with the media & joe public so the whole expectation 2 how the strategy of this fight would be a reverse of 87 as Hagler was not really accepted as a PREMIER class world champion by a high % of the boxing media & public He had a local & hard core fan base only & was regarded as blue coller school of hard knocks deserving sort of champ & absolutly nothing 2 the stratosphere level that Leonard was held at. More would be expected of Leonard here, but you'd see Leonard bigging up Hagler before they fought 2 make it look as if Ray was taking on Golieth.

I don't see that Leonard would have any choice in his tactics, yes we know he can adapt (IF ALLOWED) during a fight, but Hagler would not go looking for him i.e. Hearns85 style, Marvin would stick 2 what he'd always done best & that was boxfight in the same old steady rythem that had worn down everyone else, basicly countering for the first 4/5, no need for panic or adaption as he had a good defence as well. Leonard on the other hand would be commited to the one & only strat he had 2 hand & that was too take the offensive here & as you say, expect him to move side 2 side in/out, yeh OK, but please, don't yer think Hagler would know this!!! The pressure to perform would not be on Hagler as on Leonard.

You're summising Leonard would have the speed too avoid being countered & hurt in the regular exchanges, i can't see that, Haglers reach, southpaw lead, even on the retreat is going to land frequently & as we know Leonards defence was only average, he was easy to hit & his main defence was his blistering 5/6+ combo's, with Hagler it would be pure accurate workman like attrition, he'd have no problem whacking leonard about, yer whole premis here is that Leonard has enough speed & savvy/smarts too get inside hagler & get out, plenty tried & all failed, Leonard would be like an insect caught in a web, Leonard will be caught by hagler inside/outside & it will have an effect on leonard by the 10th + the moment Leonards pace slows then he's really going too have problems as Hagler was relentless & even upped the pressure as the fights went on.

I don't doubt Leonards ability heart/courage/determination ect, but too think that Leonard could dominate & HE'D HAVE TOO DOMINATE too survive, running around the ring would only bring the boos, impress no one, you would not see the Hagler of 87 in this fight (Mentally) he's the underdog & for all Leonards strokes that he'd try too pull he'd still be the one expected to outbox/press Hagler & avoid damage? would'nt happen at 160.

Leonards ego would get him too engage Hagler ring centre around the 6th & once his felt the power then he'll run or try, but it'll only be a matter of time, Haglers work rate will only increase while Leonards will be in survival mode:smoke thats the way i see it over 15.

 

Good point.

 

thumbsup:thumbsup

If Leonards eye that that bad he would not have made a comeback. I don't know how long that type of eye damage takes to come good, but I think he milked it for all it was worth.

Well Floyd has just come out of "retirement" to fight the P4P number two in the world , sounds good to the casuall fan.

I hope all this bs retirement's do not catch on.

 

It's a matter of record, and by Leonard's statements himself, that the Hagler-Mugabi fight indicated to him that Marvin had slowed enough for Leonard to challenge him.

That implies that he wouldn't have fought Hagler prior to Hagler's decline, and wouldn't have been able to exploit anything in Hagler.

As for the detached retina, surely that had been mended prior to his 1984 fight with Howard ?

Even if Leonard's inactivity had taken something from him, he clearly calculated that Hagler's decline was more rapid. As it was, Leonard looked sharp for Hagler, and his stamina was good because he ran almost the entire 12 rounds.
A great performance by Ray, but I thought Hagler edged it.
1982 it has to be Hagler's fight.

As for Hagler's age, he was born May 1952 or May 1954 according to various sources, making him 32/almost 33 at least, or two years older. Not that his exact age really matters. He was past his best, that much is certain.

 

Do you have a link?.

 

Unforgiven is right. Hagler was probably older than his stated age. I believe he was a month away from his 35th birthday when he faced Leonard.

 

So what's your theory, he was so terrified of Hagler -a fighter he had no obligation to face - that he fled into retirement until Hagler had declined enough?

That's stupidity edging into insanity in that case. He could have stayed active cleaning out the WW and LMW division, even taking on lesser MWs, waiting for Hagler to decline sufficiently. He would have made more money and stayed in better shape.

But is it your theory that he preferred to sit on his ass, losing the best years of his career, waiting for Hagler to age? It can't seriously be.

 

Interesting debate guys and I'm glad to see that those who think Hagler beats Leonard in '82 are in the majority.

Hagler had more speed, accuracy and much better footwork in '82 than he did against Leonard in '87. Leonard did brilliantly in '87 but it was, in my opinion, only good enough for a draw.

Hagler beats Leonard in '82 by UD or possibly late rounds TKO. Either way, Leonard gets hurt more than once over the course of the fight and loses clearly.

 

How old are you? This post has a fair bit of BS sorry. Hagler was VERY highly considered by both the media and Joe Public in 1982 and there's noway in the world he was going into a fight vs Hagler as the favourite, certainly not in the betting nor expectation to win. It was commonly thought that tho Leonard was considered the best P4P boxer in the sport his fellow great (this is critical) would have too many advantages weight wise and Leonard's class would be offset.

Betting odds for Hagler - Leonard were to open at 8-5 from memory which seems about right.

 

I have to dissagree with this post. Hagler was widely unknown at the time and stil relegated to fighting at small venues (Harrah's Casino in Atlantic city and San Remo theatre)

For some reason I can't see Ray Leonard fighting out of a theatre capable of holding 500 people

Also, the paydays do not match up with Leonard making at least 8 times what Hagler was making for his big fight with Hamsho.

So we can cross out Joe Public as having any real familiarity since Hagler fights were shown on HBO only. Even by 1987, Joe public still believed Leonard would come out on top. After all, who had Hagler fought?

You know the story. Leonard had beat Benitez, Duran, and Hearns!!!

In fact, Hagler didnt come out into the limelight until the following year which set him up for the Duran fight